Treatment of prisoners (yep, those ones...)

[fable]

quote:

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Originally posted by John D Harris:

Double HUH? check your history the Republicans won the Senate Only not Congress! The Republicans did not win Congress until 1994. The same time the deficit started coming down.

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Get your facts straight. You first claimed that the Democrats controlled the Congress under Reagan. They didn't. The Senate went Republican under Reagan enough to override any objections to fiscally radical defense bills formulated in a House led by a coalition of Republicans and Conservative Southern Democrats. Don't fool yourself: Reagan had complete control over that Congress from the start. If you doubt that, check the Congressional Record. *The Budget from 1990 onwards was exactly the budget asked for by the White House.* And the deficit did not drop under Reagan's second term. Money allocated to Social Security was "foxed in" (as one noted econmic put it) to make the deficit look smaller: a sort of "throw it into the hopper as available revenue when we're counting money, then take it out again when we're looking at we can do."

The deficit (which, as I initially stated, was created by Reagan's defense budget requests, and catapulted us from a position as No #1 creditor nation to No #1 debtor nation) wasn't substantially decreased until Clinton came to office. His plan for doing so worked remarkably well, despite the vociferous objections of the Republican-controlled Congress. (One member of the House said that Clinton's plans to remove the deficit "made us into a socialist state," one of the most bizarre comments I ever recall seeing on C-SPAN.) I still think Clinton was possibly the best "Republican" president we've seen in a long time.

Check the constitution any bills pertaining to monies MUST originate in the House of Reps. Until 1994 the Dems controled Congress and we had growing deficits coincidence?.....Mmmmmmm you decide.

Wrong. As I wrote above, the Republicans made enormous gains in the House, and formed an alliance with Southern Conservative Democrats to vote in all the additional defense expenditures *that the White House asked for.* They didn't provide anything Reagan didn't want, first. In fact, George Bush, hearing Reagan's budget plans when they were running against one another in the primaries, referred quite well and disparagingly to them as "voodoo economics." Hmmmmmm....you decide.

And for the record Carter was the only Dem I'd ever even concider voting for, for president! He is an honest Man!

Yes, but my point was that I didn't vote against Reagan, so my opinions as expressed here aren't party biased. As it happens, I think Carter is an extremely moral man, but made a terrible president. It's not a job that calls for honesty or morality. Make of that what you will.

[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

[Ryanamur]

quote:

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Originally posted by /)eathKiller:
What you have wrong here ALL OF YOU is that NO WAR HAS BEEN DECLARED.

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Declaring war is only one of the steps in being at war. Country A is a war with country B as soon as Country A attacks country B. Wether or not a war declaration has been made as nothing to do with the fact that a state of war exists.

[Ryanamur]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:
And for the record Carter was the only Dem I'd ever even concider voting for, for president! He is an honest Man!

[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

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For the record, the best US President following WWII are, IMO:

1- Carter
2- Nixon
3- Ike

The worst would be:

1- Kennedy
2- Reagan
3- Johnson

[fable]

Arggh. I didn't say that remark about Carter, Ryanamur, which you quote me as saying. I was just quoting John Harris. My view on Carter was the following:

I think Carter is an extremely moral man, but made a terrible president. It's not a job that calls for honesty or morality.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Carter may just be the most ethically sensible man to visit the White House in the 20th century. But all this is beside the point. I think I'll start up a new topic where we can discuss this. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Ryanamur]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:
Arggh. I didn't say that remark about Carter, Ryanamur, which you quote me as saying. I was just quoting John Harris. My view on Carter was the following:

I think Carter is an extremely moral man, but made a terrible president. It's not a job that calls for honesty or morality.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Carter may just be the most ethically sensible man to visit the White House in the 20th century. But all this is beside the point. I think I'll start up a new topic where we can discuss this. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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Sorry for misquoting you

But I have to dissagree with you. Carter made an excellent President because he had morals and he was ethical. If we would have more leader like him world wide, we would have a lot less problems! But really, that's for another thread [img]smile.gif[/img]

[John D Harris]

[B]Originally posted by fable:
Huh? When Reagan took the White House, the Republicans recaptured the Congress for the first time in more than fifty years. Don't take my word for it: look it up. They held it through both terms, and had a landslide majority in both cases. They voted in all the spending bills.[B]/font]

You say the Republicans recaptured the Congress for the first time in more than fifty years. make a statement like that then tell people to look it up! Deliver the facts.

Give me the number of Republicans in the Senate.
Give me the numbers of the Democrats in the Senate.

Give me the number of the Republicans in the House.
Give me the number of Democrats in the House.

Southern Democrats have always voted consersative. Yet they were still Democrats! Former president Carter was a Southern Democrat and an honest Man. What does that tell you about Southern Democrats?


Yes Reagan got the defense build up he ask for. Reagan did not ask for the domestic spending increases that Congress delievered! What was the amount of dometic spending increases Reagan asked for? What was the Domestic spending increases that Congress Delivered? What was the differance in the amount? Where did that differance come from?

[fable]

You're forgetting that I'm not into games, JH. If you have the figures to answer your own questions, post 'em. If not--you're just throwing us more games.

[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

[John D Harris]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:
You're forgetting that I'm not into games, JH. If you have the figures to answer your own questions, post 'em. If not--just more games.

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Let me get this straight Fable,

You post a statement to make a point of view known. Then back peddle and qualify it when challenged and act as if you were miss-quoted. When asked to show the facts, produce none. Yet asking you to produce facts to back up this point of view is a game? Nice twist and turn, but you zigged when you should've zagged. You see, I'm a dogatic Freight train I can not be derailed. I'm still waiting for the answers to my questions. I understand they may take some time to find. I have the patience of Job. But, let not your heart be troubled, you have my word I'll not pester you about it. If you have any doubts ask around I am a man of my word.

[fable]

Another debating trick. Does this mean that you will go back, now, to all your former posts, and in an extension of your own logic, put down numbers to back every statement of fact that you've made?

Let's try that, shall we? Using your own approach, above. We'll start with your quotes, and then I'll use your technique in reply:

Your comment: "These men had already started at least one up-rising in a "prisoner of war camp" (said tongue-in-cheeck)."

Mine: How many uprisings did they start? How many prisoners were involved? How long did the uprisings occur?

But this is just silly high school debating tactics. Of course, the joke is (as I'm sure you realize) that it's too much work: if you had to go back and give figures for every statement you made, based on what you'd ever read or seen, you'd never have time to do anything else, because you would live in a library. So would I. Instead, I lived, voted, and worked during those years, and I kept a close watch on national politics for my own...amusement. If you really want to find out that my comments about Reagan and the defense department budget, etc, are accurate, I'll recommend some books, and *you* can look 'em up. Or, we both can, for all our remarks. You don't want to accept the veracity of my comments? I'm having trouble with yours, too.

Come on. First you make major mistakes about what I've posted in the past, then you resort to something as unoriginal and uninspiring as the above. I expected better of you. Try again.

[ 01-25-2002: Message edited by: fable ]

[Grand-Ranger]

quote:

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Originally posted by /)eathKiller:
What you have wrong here ALL OF YOU is that NO WAR HAS BEEN DECLARED. Only Congress has the power and congress has not deemed it necessary for war to be declared. THe president of the united states. as the commander in cheif has been granded 90 day (it is extendable) acess to kick whatever countries ass he deems fit. The word WAR is actually an IDIOM which is being used to represent "OUR KICKING THE ASS OF"
And no Im not being indescreit. I'm sorry but there are American Prisoners in LOUSISIANA who are being treated more lowly than those of X-ray

Listen to Red-Blue Flare and Me, we both live down the street from the damn place! Hes practically right next to it! If you dont want to listen to the truth THEN FINE but know that these men are being treated better than they ever have in their lives! and They are not prisoners of war, if they are soldiers for a quazi terrorist group then THEY are catagorized as EXTREMIST GOONS. Which labels them as pretty much monkeys. WE'RE EVEN INSTALLING AIR-CONDITIONERS for the love of GOD! and we let the RED CROSS in even through we didnt have to! and now everyone is saying WAR WAR WAR...

what part of there was NO WAR dont you people understand. Just alot of fighting involving us and another country. Im sure that if the Al Queda captured Americans... OH IM SORRY ... THEY DID... they locked them in a downstairs CELLAR with no food or oxygen and they barley escaped with their lives! At least WE were so good enough as to put them on the best damn peice of America on earth! GTMO! well not techincally a peice of america, but if its gotta MIckey Ds and some guys in uniform thats close enough!

and CAGES! who came up with that word? The BBC is always trying to dig up DIRT on things you'd LEAST expect to be BAD...

We're not even CLOSE TO HALF BAD!

DAMNIT we're Over-humane!!

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Why hasnt anyone reconized this post??

OH WAIT, I know, It because it has facts that cant be dennied.