The unchecked wave of immigration into the United States

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: Ahh, But Is it not hypocritical? Look at those people who denounce immigration, and look at those people who are most in favour of the free market and capitalism, You will find the two often meet.

errrr, you seem to be surprised that human beings are hypocritical? Look at our history as a species, its full of hypocrasy.

By the way, Im not denouncing immigration, Im denouncing illegal immigration and an unchecked policy on legal immagration. Free market has little to do with either. Nor does Capitalism, neither of those two concepts rests on unlimited immigration.

[Timber Loftis]

Just to chime in on what may be a misconception. In America, legal immigration is quite difficult. Visas are relatively obtainable, but if you want to stay, good luck. Unless you have $1M or so to spend, and/or can start a business that will create a certain amount of jobs. Investor visas are great, and very preferred. There is no hiding that fact that the INS quite prefers to take the cream-of-the-crop from other countries when it can.

Unique-type skills/service and fame-related visas are also easy. Which is how all the NHL/NBA/MLB players immigrate, as well as any nobel prize winner who wants to.

But if you're Joe-Schmoe, fat chance getting to live in the US permanently.

Oh, to be one of the privileged...

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Just to chime in on what may be a misconception. In America, legal immigration is quite difficult. Visas are relatively obtainable, but if you want to stay, good luck. Unless you have $1M or so to spend, and/or can start a business that will create a certain amount of jobs. Investor visas are great, and very preferred. There is no hiding that fact that the INS quite prefers to take the cream-of-the-crop from other countries when it can. Unique-type skills/service and fame-related visas are also easy. Which is how all the NHL/NBA/MLB players immigrate, as well as any nobel prize winner who wants to. But if you're Joe-Schmoe, fat chance getting to live in the US permanently. Oh, to be one of the privileged...

Quite right, the INS screens for permanent residency then forgets to ever check to make sure your non-permanent visa is obeyed and that you left the country. They turn the people loose and say, make sure your back here in a year......expecting people to actually show up to be deported...

We don't even need to discuss how easy it is to get forged documents and credentials to allow you to stay in the country,(one reason a national ID would be a complete waste fo time, as the same government workers selling fake drivers licenses would sell faked National ID's)

[ 11-04-2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Timber Loftis]

LoL. Quite right, MagiK. Student visas are perhaps the most abused. I think fully half of the 9/11 bastards (because they are fatherless whorespawn! ) were on student visas.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: LoL. Quite right, MagiK. Student visas are perhaps the most abused. I think fully half of the 9/11 bastards (because they are fatherless whorespawn! ) were on student visas.

And nearly all had fake Drivers licenses from Virginaia or Maryland *sigh*

[ 11-04-2002, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by MagiK: errrr, you seem to be surprised that human beings are hypocritical? Look at our history as a species, its full of hypocrasy. By the way, Im not denouncing immigration, Im denouncing illegal immigration and an unchecked policy on legal immagration. Free market has little to do with either. Nor does Capitalism, neither of those two concepts rests on unlimited immigration. [/QB]

In theory They rest on the Free movement of Capital and labour, The Free movement of capital and labour includes allowing immigration or at least the movement of people into a country for the purposes of usage as labour,
Look for example at all the fruit pickers who are imported from mexico.
Now, think, You’re a fruit picker imported from Mexico to the USA, Are you going to want to go back to your little village in Mexico or maybe the big town, and slave away in a factory, or in some Agricultral related job or do you want to stay in America with the change of higher wages & a better life?

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: errrr, you seem to be surprised that human beings are hypocritical? Look at our history as a species, its full of hypocrasy. By the way, Im not denouncing immigration, Im denouncing illegal immigration and an unchecked policy on legal immagration. Free market has little to do with either. Nor does Capitalism, neither of those two concepts rests on unlimited immigration.

In theory They rest on the Free movement of Capital and labour, The Free movement of capital and labour includes allowing immigration or at least the movement of people into a country for the purposes of usage as labour,
Look for example at all the fruit pickers who are imported from mexico.
Now, think, You’re a fruit picker imported from Mexico to the USA, Are you going to want to go back to your little village in Mexico or maybe the big town, and slave away in a factory, or in some Agricultral related job or do you want to stay in America with the change of higher wages & a better life?[/QB][/QUOTE]Nice try, but fruit pickers can be arranged for without allowing unchecked immigration and illegal immigration. There is no law that says seasonal workers cannot be imported in a controlled manner.

[Timber Loftis]

Problem with that MagiK, is that there is still a set minimum wage, and unless it was lowered for seasonal workers by the gov., there's no reason to import them. The whole reason they're worth employing is their willingness to work for less than minimum wage. Okay, not all fruit pickers work for that cheap, but I bet many do.

And, there is already imported labor of the ilk you mention. Tobacco farmers in KY I know do it. We're talking about filling the niche market that only illegal immigrants can fill.

[ 11-04-2002, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Problem with that MagiK, is that there is still a set minimum wage, and unless it was lowered for seasonal workers by the gov., there's no reason to import them. The whole reason they're worth employing is their willingness to work for less than minimum wage. Okay, not all fruit pickers work for that cheap, but I bet many do. And, there is already imported labor of the ilk you mention. Tobacco farmers in KY I know do it. We're talking about filling the niche market that only illegal immigrants can fill.

Im not sure about the numbers, but our current unemployed stats say around 3-5% there aren't enough "Employable" types even at minimum wage to fill in for all the seasonal workers. I think if we imported them and paid them minimum wage, they would be making out asnd so would we, though prices would go up a bit.

[Lord of Alcohol]

In yet another blow to people here in North Carolina Bank of America (one of the worst yet biggest banks in the US) is going to outsource all its computer programming to......India. The people who are to be laid off are being told to train their replacements before they lose jobs. They are required to sign two forms-a non-disclosure statemant about telling the media, and an agreement to train the replacements. Not signing or telling the media will result in firing and not getting severance pay. This was in the local paper a couple weeks ago. A group talked to the media anyway although they asked to remain anonymous. Besides the security implications of one the major banks in the US computer assets in another country it just goes to show what a large corporation will do to screw their own country in order to save money. Perhaps these couple thousand employees can pick up "service jobs" like delivering pizza, who knows?