All drow party - purely role-playing

[Luvian]

It might have something to do with the fact that he is level 35 and has 24 constitution...

[Callum Kerr]

Going back to drizzt and drow, which I CANNOT accept... in the books that I have read... the dwarves are rated as having no chance in one on one combat... but they r still excellent fighters AS A RACE - including the rank and file soldiers - so... we have EXCELLENT drow and excellent dwarves... and dwarves can easily cut down goblins in 5 to 1 combat (my impression at least)... but what does that make goblins and etc?

And also... with my level thirty party i still had to reload a saved game to beat isair and madae... what does that make them?
I am sure that Salvatore himself would make drizzt a higher level than what D&D are supposed to have made him (I just CANNOT believe it)

And (continuing my first point) Drizzt beat this Errtu tanar'ri or glabrezu or whatever he was... the highest demon thingie. I really think that all characters are under rated - I say... take a civilian as level one and work upwards

[Luvian]

The rules are accepted by the novels writers, they even helped come up with the statistics to their characters.

Golbins have 4 hit points max. About anyone with some basic training could butcher them. You know... that's why they are the weakest monsters ever...

You said it yourself. Drow are good AS A RACE. 90% of the human population does not have a pc class. Dwarven just have a little higher constitution than human, wich help a little. 100% of the drow population is AT LEAST level 2.

Think about it, an army of regular human or dwarf would be in big trouble against an army of level 2+ drows. We are talking about 1-8 hit points +0 to attack characters against 1-20 +2 attack OR MORE, but they also have innate spells abilities, and attributes bonus. And you know what, they are level 2+, and they have a two level penalty. That mean that EVERY drow is in fact a level 4 character minimum. Every drow is worth 4+ humans or dwarf.

Ertu is a pit fiend. Yes, the most powerfull kind of demon, and guess what... he had 13 hit dices. That's right. The most powerfull demons are level 13 monsters. So of course Drows are lower in levels. They fear Yochlol, and Yochlol are level 6...

Your problems is that you don't see the numbers as they should be. You are thinking that characters level 5- are very common, 10 or so are average, and 20+ a little rare, while level 30 just rare. But that's not the case.

Level 1 characters are very rare. And as I said somewhere, there is maybe 15 or so level 30 NPCs in ALL of the forgotten realms. Level 15 are as rare as what you consider level 30+ to be, if not more.

Elminster is level 35 and he is the most powerfull character of the forgotten realms. Do you think any drow commoner is as strong as him?

This is not Final Fantasy or Diablo. The Maximum level ever is level 30. Level 30 in Dungeon and Dragons is like level 99 in Final Fantasy. Do you think every drow would be level 99?

[Callum Kerr]

Heheh... you sound pissed off at me for repeating everything
And I need to broaden my experience... who is Elminster... and i have never played final fantasy... that is my problem... i overestimate things

And what exactly does hit dice mean, I know its a measure of health etc... but i really don't get what it IS. So i don't get about errtu still. Does that mean that he is level 13? in which case drizzts level is right... or is Errtu higher than that? In which case drizzt's level is IMHO wrong

BUT... why was it so hard to kill isair and madae with a party of level 30

P.S. actually, no - I don't under estimate things - My consciousness creates the world around me so i am rite in my world - and u r all right in ur own consciousness's world

[Luvian]

Originally posted by Callum Kerr: Heheh... you sound pissed off at me for repeating everything And I need to broaden my experience... who is Elminster... and i have never played final fantasy... that is my problem... i overestimate things And what exactly does hit dice mean, I know its a measure of health etc... but i really don't get what it IS. So i don't get about errtu still. Does that mean that he is level 13? in which case drizzts level is right... or is Errtu higher than that? In which case drizzt's level is IMHO wrong BUT... why was it so hard to kill isair and madae with a party of level 30 P.S. actually, no - I don't under estimate things - My consciousness creates the world around me so i am rite in my world - and u r all right in ur own consciousness's world

Forgive me 30 seconds while I go cry in the corner...
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AH! Much better now.

Hit dice are levels for monsters. Since most monsters have very different abilities, making common class for them would be hard, so instead, they have "hit dices". Ertu has 13 hit dices. That mean that they used 13d8 for his health. And he has a Base to hit, saving throws and all other classrestricted abilities, like spellcasting and such, equal to a level 13.

Well.... Who is Elminster... It's hard to explain him if you have never seen him. If you keep reading forgotten Realm Novels, you'sll learn more about him later. But the best I could describe him as, is like Gandalf, Power wise, if you have read the 3 lord of the rings novels.

Or do you read dragonlance? He is higher as powerfull as Raistlin in the latter novels. Personally, I would say he is more powerfull than Raistlin, but that's a huge debate, and I don't want to start it in this thread as well...

If you don't know either of them, Just figure out an old mage that is at least 500 years old, can kill dragons in like 10 seconds, has been to hell, caused TONS of trouble, and has been back. If something exist, and it is either evil, or neutral, he has killed that kind before... He is the right hand man of Mystra, godess of magic, and was her lover, before she died and got replaced.

Isair and Madae have been made extra powerfull so that we could have a challenge. They have tons of immunities, powers,... It would have been boring if the end bosses had simply been a level 16 mage and priest.

It's true that you are right in your world, and that we all are right in our world, too. But sometimes it important to have a link between those worlds, and that's usually the official rules. They are the middle ground between all our worlds.

Personally, I think that Demons, Dragons and such are too easy in the official rules, and I have beefed them up in my Pen and Paper games.

[Imrahil]

I'll chime in, in most part to agree with Luvian, in that the CRPG games don't really give a representation of the world they are supposed to set in. I'm not complaining by any means that my characters are level 17-18 & can reach level 30, because that makes it more fun, but it's not really "realistic" (we have to take for granted that that term even applies [img]smile.gif[/img] ).

In the "real world" of AD&D, a character undergoing the challenges of IWDII would likely start at level 5-6 & end at level 11-13 (& that's being generous). The whole game would be a major campaign where you level up much less frequently. More to the point, it would likely exhaust the joy of playing (I've been there) & prompt you, as the DM, & your players to create new characters & a new campaign. AND THAT'S AFTER ONLY GAINING 5-6 LEVELS! [img]smile.gif[/img]

(also assuming the DM allowed you to start at level 5-6, which creates more fun, but still isn't "realistic")

So, what you have to understand is that what you perceive in reading any Forgotten Realms novel - that is, the characters are allowed to be more heroic than any character in a real P&P game can ever (generally) be allowed to be - is not the "standard" (I hate having to even put quotes arond it, even given the board I'm posting to [img]smile.gif[/img] ). The IE games simulate the novels to an extended degree (although BGI did a good job of simulating a "real" campaign). They don't, in any way, reflect what you read in the novels or play in the game.

In general, a real game is on a much lower scale than the novels. In general, the games are on a much bigger scale than the novels.

They are 100% fun in their own right & I love playing them, but they don't duplicate the setting of a real game, give you any idea of how a real game should be played (other than a Monty Haul game, of course - which I'm not saying is bad - that, too was fun in my early DM'ing stage [img]smile.gif[/img] ), or give you a realistic idea of what "real" characters in the AD&D or, in particular the Forgotten Realms, are like.

To summarize, think of your characters as "The Most Heroic Band in The Realm", deserving of a whole series of novels, rather than an example of what anyone can attain.

- Imrahil

[Luvian]

Well said!

[Madrigal Five]

Originally posted by Luvian: Or do you read dragonlance? He is higher as powerfull as Raistlin in the latter novels. Personally, I would say he is more powerfull than Raistlin, but that's a huge debate, and I don't want to start it in this thread as well...

WOOOAAAAAAAAAAAHHH! Hold on there! Raistlin became a God!! Ok, ok, ok... won't start the debate... We're talking 2 different universes, anyway. But at least admit that Raistlin was way cooler. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hey, isn't the Simbul more powerful than Elminster? In 1st Ed rules, she was 27th level and Elminster was 26th.

[Luvian]

[quote]Originally posted by Madrigal Five:

Originally posted by Luvian: [qb] Hey, isn't the Simbul more powerful than Elminster? In 1st Ed rules, she was 27th level and Elminster was 26th.

No, Elmisters is higher level now, but he has one level above her only if I remember right.

[Lucifer Lord of demons]

What dows having Archmage lvl do in game terms?