A few tidbits on the new IWD II

[Larry_OHF]

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Bard spell casting being like the Sorcerer: I'd like to do it "the sorcerer way". There was some goofy stuff involved with it, though. I'll have to see if Bernie made any discoveries.

Drow skin colors being limited to dark colors: That is how it currently is. Drow can pick from a range of dark grays, blues, and greens for skin tones, and the standard white, silver, pale gold hair colors.

It's a real "non-issue" when someone in the game refers to a dark elf as a "black-skinned b*****d" after the player sets their drow's skin color to yellow or white.

Ability scores change: The original post has been edited. You start with 10s in each stat and have 16 points to spend. You can also drop points down to racial minimums if you so desire (and suffer the consequences). Every four levels, you will receive a bonus point to place in the statistic of your choice.

For people who "need" an editor to play a "decent" paladin: do some math.

STR: 14
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 12
CHA: 14

This "sucky" character using the listed system gets +2 to hit and damage with melee weapons, +1 to AC, +1 to hit with missile weapons, +1 to Reflex saves, +2 to hit points per level, +2 to Fortitude saves, +1 to Will saves, a bonus 1st level cleric spell, and +2 to all saving throws on top of all other bonuses.

By level 28, ability scores cease to be the measure of awesomeness.

That system is nonsensical, and I have no apologies for violating your fascist regard for it. The DMG's scaling system tries to convince the reader that sometimes, +1 is equal to +1, but sometimes, it's actually equal to +2 or some other amount. That's what happens when you weight values that correspond to a linear progression of bonuses.

To go from 10 to 12 on the DMG scale, you spend 1 point to increase from 10 to 11, 1 point to increase from 11 to 12. The net effect is +1 on all values derived from that statistic. To go from 14 to 16, you spend 2 points to increase from 14 to 15, 2 points to increase from 15 to 16. The net effect is a +1 on all values derived from that statistic. So, in essence, +1 is equal to 2 points sometimes, 4 points other times. That makes absolutely no sense.

It's clear that for well-rounded characters, spending points to raise stats over 14 is wasteful. Why raise one stat to 18 if two stats have to sit at 8 or 10? I could give my fighter 14s in Strength, Dex, and Con and get a much greater net effect out of it. That's why we're not using the DMG's system; it makes no sense, and it excessively punishes people who want to give their characters one or two high stats.

RE: racial minimums and maximums.

A character's minimums and maximums are applied to the starting values in each statistic, and DO NOT subtract from the character's available point pool. For most races, this evens out perfectly; they have one +2 and one -2. Some other races, like dark elves, gain more bonuses than penalties. It is important to note that these bonuses are not taken from the point pool.

At character creation, a player may distribute points up to, or down to, 3 or 18, plus racial modifiers.

"OMG WTH BBQ, WHAT'S THE POINT?"

The point is that you can start an elf with a 20 Dex if you wish to do so. However, that elf has a maximum of 16 Con. If you think that this somehow "dilutes" your bonuses and penalties, think again. It's a mathematical balance. Whether you roll or allocate points, those characters are typically getting the exact same values of bonuses and penalties. How many of you have never done the following: you roll a 14 and a 16 for an elf character. You want a 14 Con and a 16 Dex, so you put the 16 in Con and the 14 in Dex. Big deal, it's just switching numbers. The bonuses are only really there to stretch racial mins and maxes. In the case of dark elves, they actually do gain +2 ability score points out of "the deal".

The bonus points you receive from leveling can exceed starting racial values.

"OMG, LOL, ROFL, AFAIK, WHAT'S THE POINT OF PLAYING AN ELF?"

Well, assume that you make an elven rogue and a human rogue. The elven rogue starts with a 20 Dexterity, the human starts with an 18 Dexterity (let's pretend). At 4th and 8th level, the human raises his Dex to 20. OOOOOoOOooh. At 4th and 8th level, the elf raises his Dex to 22, staying 2 points ahead of the human. Yay.

3E Rangers and testers not being ignored: Even Monte Cook admitted, after leaving WotC, that the ranger class that appears in the Player's Handbook is poorly balanced. That's why he made the well-known "Monte Cook alt. ranger" which is used by many D&D groups. In fact, it's so well accepted that many D&D 3E character generators allow you to select "ranger" or "Monte Cook ranger".

And hey, just because a playtester offers advice, that doesn't mean anyone necessarily listens to it. I offered suggestions for the FRCS hardcover that were completely ignored. Like forcing gensai clerics to take their elemental domain instead of forcing them to only be clerics of deities that had their elemental domain. The way it's written, a fire gensai cleric can only worship about three FR deities, since only three FR deities have access to the fire domain. Nice. Or, you know, they could have made Great Shout a decent spell, but chose not to. Some of my suggestions were not so good, but others were, IMO, very good. They were all ignored or forgotten. Just because something is playtested, that doesn't mean it was fixed to the specifications of the testers.

Nope, giants have Strength far beyond 25. A 25 Strength in 3E gives you +7 to hit, +7 to damage. In 2nd Ed., it gave +7 to hit, +14 to damage. Quite a difference.

(Negatives) They kick in at the same rate, starting at 9.

8-9: -1
6-7: -2
4-5: -3
2-3: -4
1: -5

Day and night open menus: Here's something neat. Go to the menu between 6:00 A.M. and 5:59 P.M.:
feedback.blackisle.com/images/daymenu.jpg

Go to the menu between 6:00 P.M. and 5:59 A.M.:
feedback.blackisle.com/images/nightmenu.jpg

WHEEE.

Detail of settlements: I believe that the settlements in the game are very fleshed out. In Targos, the opening town, there are often several ways to solve quests and very few generic characters. Character race, alignment, stats, and class often affects dialogue options and character reactions. Here's a sample of such affects:

Another warrior come for healing from Ragni? The only people welcome in this house are those who give or take blood. Are you one of the brave, or are you just another talker?

If Bard is my name, and I am here to inspire the fallen with songs to stir their hearts and calm th- Goto 3

If Paladin By all that is holy and just in this world, I swear I will aid this town in its fight against evil. Goto 4

If Cleric of Tempus I am a fellow Battleguard of Tempus. I am here to fight. Goto 5

If Cleric of Bane Tempurans. You sit around and wait for war to come. If we from the church of Bane were in charge, this army would have been crushed long ago. Goto 6

If Cleric of Selune I am here to spread Selune's light, and let her light help all find their chosen path through these dark times. Goto 4

If Dwarf Axes, hammers, or blades. Whatever ye have, give 'em to the dwarves. We'll sort this mess out. Goto 7

We came to help in the war effort, yes. Goto 2

These special reply nodes typically just put more flavor into conversations, and allow the NPC to give feedback based on what you say. For example, if you give the bard line, Ragni says:

STILL YOUR WAGGING TONGUE! You waste breath while brave men gasp their last not a league from where we stand!

Ragni's associate, Denham, then steps in to calm the priest of Tempus down. If you give the paladin or Selunite responses, you get this:

Hrnhh... feel free to do good as long as you do it well. What can I do for you?

And from the Banite:

Hrmph. When clever words, sneering, and intimidation fail, you'd best be ready for war, Banite. What do you want?

However, there are also times where having a character of a particular class or race makes quests much easier; it has a very real effect on how you play the game. Another simple example, from Targos:

You are, at one point, asked to talk to a priest of Myrkul who is using his "talents" to speak with the corpses of goblins. When you arrive and ask the priest, Koluhm, what the goblins said, he tells you the following:

Hmn... I fear to tell you what I have learned... which is to say, precious little, yes. The goblin tongue is not one familiar to me, and making sense of its words has been, hmm... difficult, yes.

PC is a Half-Orc, Dwarf, Gnome, Elf, Drow, Wood Elf, Gold Dwarf, Gray Dwarf My race knows something of the goblin tongue. Speak what the goblin says, and I will see if I can translate.

PC is a Half-Elf, Halfing My race knows a little of the goblin tongue. Speak what the goblin says, and I will see if I can translate.

Player is Human, INT > 15 I picked up a little of the goblin tongue during my travels - speak what the goblin says, and I will see if I can translate.

Player is Human, INT < 16 Hmm. Perhaps if you try to write down the words, you can send them to Shawford, and he can have someone translate them.

From there, your character translates the dead goblin's words with varying levels of accuracy. Not only does that allow you to wrap everything up right there, but you also gain some more knowledge about what's going on with the attacks on the town.

Overall, I think players will have a fun time exploring the few communities in the game, especially Targos.

Tex Yang (Quality Assurance)

Rangers and dual wielding: In the original IWD rangers had one extra attack to simulate dual wielding. In IWD2 rangers will start out with one slot in the proficiency of dual wielding when the character is created.

Charisma affecting dialogues: There will be dialogues which vary depending on the character's charisma score. Other stats also play important roles for certain dialogues as well.

Different combinations will be required for different dialogues - some will require only one stat, some will require a combination of stats, so it's always a good thing to keep that in mind when making up your party, so making a balanced set of stats should be a factor in deciding your party's composition.

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[Micah Foehammer]

Great stuff, Larry!!!!

I loved this last post especially! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Larry_OHF]

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Thursday, March 14, 2002


Darren Monahan Interview

Thursday, March 14, 2002, 05:22 | MageDragon

The Armchair Empire has posted an interview with Darren Monahan, Producer for Icewind Dale II.
ACE: Approximately how many different species of monsters are you aiming to include in the game? Any as of yet unmentioned beasts you’d care to fill us in on? Will there be any opportunities for dragon slaying in IWD2?

Darren: I think nearly every monster used in BG and IWD is back and a bunch of new ones (several from Torment and Baldur’s Gate: Dark Alliance in fact). Bugbears, Feyrs, Hook Horrors, new demons, Driders, half-human/half-dragons, and much more, and yes, opportunities for dragon slaying do exist, perhaps in more than one situation.

Wednesday, March 13, 2002


Wednesday, March 13, 2002, 16:35 | MageDragon

Doug Avery (Associate Producer) has posted a development update on the Icewind Dale II site.
Over the course of the past few weeks, we've really been concentrating on getting the interface completed. Artist Brian Menze is still working on the spell icons and they look fantastic, I can't wait to show them off. We are shrinking the character portraits down and putting them along the top of the bottom panel with their health bars underneath them. You will be able to hide either of the two panels of the interface, the bottom portion with the text window and command buttons or the top portion with the character portraits. That is just the main interface. We have also made the decision to cut the character kits and go with 3E multiclassing. This will make Q.A.'s job much easier and will keep the game way more consistent with our 3E goals.

On the design front, Rob Holloway and John Deiley are almost completely done with their areas. All of the other designers are still polishing up theirs and concentrating on bug fixing. We've also gotten a lot of feedback from Q.A. and have implemented a number of their suggestions for the areas.

Programming is where we have allocated most of our resources to implement all of the 3E changes we're putting in.

On the production side we are answering interview questions from many sources and working closely with our marketing department on the box and going over the possibility of a collector's edition. Oz (Kevin Osburn) is, as usual, still beating on the buglist and working with Q.A. to get all of the outstanding issues dealt with.

That's about it for this update. I'll keep you guys posted on what is happening periodically. I'll also be on the message boards to answer questions there.

On the Black Isle Developer Boards

Wednesday, March 13, 2002, 18:10 | MageDragon
From the Black Isle Developer message boards.


J.E. Sawyer (Lead Designer)
Despanas: These are the Rilauven Despanas. Ahem.

Actually, House Despana first appeared in a really, really old module (a Greyhawk module, I believe). Anyway, there is no connection between the IWD2 Despanas and the BG2 Despanas (if any).

Size of Chult: The areas aren't incredibly large in size. The main area of Chult can be approached through two methods: sneaky guiley and slaughter everyone. If you go through in the sneaky guiley way, it can be a very interesting sneaky/explorey/talky area that takes quite a bit of time. If you slaughter everyone -- well, it's pretty difficult, but it goes much faster.

Metamagic: I don't really understand this mentality; metamagic feats are neat, but they're not vital to a cleric or a wizard. Given the choice between taking Extend Spell and Toughness, I'd probably go with Toughness. Given the choice between, hmm... ANY METAMAGIC FEAT and Combat Casting, I'd take Combat Casting.

Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Dodge, are feats that are useful to all classes. Frankly, if I played a wizard that didn't have access to metamagic feats, I wouldn't be too busted up about it.

Okay. Your mage with a Quickened Fireball vs. my mage with Improved Initiative and Finger of Death. YOU = DED. Remember, that's a 7th level spell slot, and if you don't go fast enough to cast the spell, it doesn't matter if you have a Quickened one hanging around. Have fun making that 22+ish Fortitude Save. A wizard without metamagic feats can still be an awesome character.

Current responsibilities: I am no longer designing areas for IWD2. I help oversee area design, but barely. Most of my efforts on IWD2 at this stage are in system implementation and balancing. Programmers implement the rules, so any changes to such things barely take away from a designer's area design time. Every once in a while, a designer may have to open up a few dozen creature files and make a change or two, but that's usually about it.

3E Multiclass: If it were to be done in the way that it had been done previously (adding new class IDs), yes it would be a big pain. If, however, it were done in a different way... perhaps it would be much less difficult.

Paladins and monks: What I would suggest would essentially be three types of paladins, three types of monks:

Paladin of Ilmater - Freely multi- to cleric and back.
Paladin of Helm - Freely multi- to fighter and back.
Paladin of Mystra - Freely multi- to wizard and back (yes, in fact, Mystra does have paladins, let's not even bring up the whole "only LG deities may have paladins" argument again)

Broken Ones (Lawful Good Ilmateri monks) - Freely multi- to cleric and back.
Old Order (Lawful Neutral monks) - Freely multi- to rogue and back.
Dark Moon (Lawful Evil monks) - Freely multi- to sorcerer and back.

It's slightly different than what is in the FRCS hardcover, but it's pretty close.

Fighter feats: Hell, even if you just used five Martial Weapon feats, you have an additional six feats right there. For each of the five weapons, you can take Weapon Focus and for one of the five weapons, you can take Specialization.

If there were six Simple Weapon feats, you could take focus in all of those as well.

That's hardly an "awesome" use of fighter feats, but I think there are more than enough to fill a fighter's basket, even at high levels.
Damien Foletto (Junior Designer)
Monsters with ponytails in the following screenshot: The ones with pony tails are Yuan-Ti Half-Breeds. The pony tail is used as one of their attacks.
Tex Yang (Quality Assurance)
Sneaking through Chult: Oh on a quick note, for you sneaky fans out there, that particular path through Chult is a real kicker.

To summarize: Players will be able to do the puzzles and figure all the bits and pieces out, or if they want to do it the old fashioned way, go on a killing spree and do it Conan style.

Kevin Osburn Interview

Wednesday, March 13, 2002, 17:49 | MageDragon

PC Game Central has posted an interview with Kevin Osburn, Line Producer for Icewind Dale II.
PCGC: About how many new spells, monsters, and items will we see in the game?

Kevin Osburn: We have added a bunch of new spells in the game, bringing a grand total of over 300. Some spells have been brought over from BG2, while we have some newly created spells never before seen in an IE game. We have added several hundred new items into the game, as well as unique items only found in the improved Heart of Fury mode. There are a number of new monsters, from Bugbears, Driders, Feyrs, Hook Horrors, Will O Wisps, Worg-riding Goblins, and much more. You'll even see favorites from previous IE games, dragons, drow, undead and more.

Gary Gygax Interview

Wednesday, March 13, 2002, 17:39 | MageDragon

Kcgeek has posted an interview with Gary Gygax, creator of Dungeons and Dragons.
KCG: You have said CRPGs aren't "real" roleplaying - as online multiplayer games become fuller featured, do you foresee this changing? What kinds of technological advances are necessary to make "real" roleplaying via machine possible?

Gary Gygax: First question is: To whom does one ROLE-PLAY when gaming? Obviously, CRPGs are not really RPGs at all, are they? Unless there is direct communication between the Game Master and the players, that communication affecting the GM's decisions on the results of actions other than random number results, there is no role-play of any meaningful sort involved, although some role assumption and playing within the bounds of the character set forth is possible.

I foresee online gaming changing when there are good audio-visual links connecting the participants, thus approximating play in a face-to-face group.

When AI approximates Machine Intelligence, then many online and computer-run RPGs will move towards actual RPG activity. Nonetheless, that will not replace the experience of "being there," any more than seeing a theatrical motion picture can replace the stage play.

Tuesday, March 12, 2002


On the Black Isle Developer Boards
Tuesday, March 12, 2002, 20:25 | MageDragon
From the Black Isle Developer message boards.


Doug Avery (Associate Producer)
Development update soon and a deleted message: I don't know where it went. I talked to Kevin and Josh and neither of them deleted it. Hmmmm. The thread starter can delete it so maybe that's what happened? Anyway here is what I said:

"I have the update ready to go, but our webmaster went home sick. She should be in tomorrow so the update will go up then. The update will include a news update from me, a new desktop, a few new screenshots and a new portrait. The latter to help you all forget my error and make you happy campers (and to hopefully buy me a little time before I see the cookpot)."

That was it in a nutshell.


J.E. Sawyer (Lead Designer)
Attacks per round: There are animation limits in the engine that cause the number of attacks to max out at 5 (4 + 1 from dual-wield = 5). It least, I believe that's how it works.

Friendly towns: There's Targos, the wandering village, Ahk Kyorl Kulg (the House Despana drow camp), the Black Raven Monastery, Kuldahar and... that's about it.

Crossbow being a good weapon for an Assassin: Oh, it is, my friend.

It is.

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[Larry_OHF]

Saturday, March 16, 2002 J.E. Sawyer Interview Saturday, March 16, 2002, 07:57 | MageDragon IGN PC has posted an interview with J.E. Sawyer, Lead Designer for Icewind Dale II. There is also a 15MB MPEG trailer showing some of the game play. IGNPC: We all thought that the combat in Icewind Dale was quite compelling. Combat in the 3rd edition seems much more sophisticated than the rules you used for the first Icewind Dale. What changes can players expect to see in combat? J.E. Sawyer: To be honest, I think the primary thing that makes 3E combat seem more "sophisticated" is the use of attacks of opportunity. Those rules are easily the most confusing and among the most often criticized elements of the system. Some people love them, some people hate them -- but they definitely do add a very heavy layer of complexity to the rules. Overall, I believe that the subset of 3E rules we are implementing will make the game much easier to understand, much more customizable, and ultimately, just more fun. Friday, March 15, 2002 Icewind Dale II Designer Diary 3 Friday, March 15, 2002, 16:25 | MageDragon RPGVault has posted the third Icewind Dale II Designer Diary, hosted again by Dave Maldonado. But even the 3E-based changes aside... the interface? Again, insane. Originally it was a simple matter of aesthetics - some touch-ups here, and new panel background there - but there's been some significant redesign, including the addition of some handy new functionality like weapon/shield combination boxes - these allow players to set up different hand-held equipment combinations and switch through them quickly and easily. I can't wait 'til these are ready to show off - I think the additional time spent will be well worth it. And on a related note, the artists even went and updated the item and spell icons to go along with the new interface... the item icons have a great gritty, "Savage North" sort of look to them, while the now extravagantly detailed spell icons remind me a bit of Planescape: Torment's. On the Black Isle Developer Boards Friday, March 15, 2002, 16:20 | MageDragon From the Black Isle Developer message boards. Doug Avery (Associate Producer) Weapon damage being 3E: We've already made most of these changes now and are planning on doing the rest. We're trying to be as close to 3E as possible. J.E. Sawyer (Lead Designer) Bard casting: Bards will cast spells like sorcerers. Spontaneous healing for clerics: We're working on it. Bard songs: I've talked to Darren about the possibility of making the basic bard song "free" and then giving special "bonus feats" at the time the bards would get additional songs. In addition to the regular HoW songs, the player could pick Riddlemaster riddles and/or Lingering Song. I'm not sure if we can do it, though. Spell sets: Bards and sorcerers cast spells differently than wizards, so they will have their own list of spells. This did cause much anguish, but Bernie is mostly better now. However, bards, sorcerers and wizards all pick from the same spell set. Paladins and clerics pick from the same spell set. Druids and rangers pick from the same spell set. Level drain: No; we aren't implementing full level drain, only the acquisition of negative levels, which operate as listed. Shapeshifter forms becoming feats: It is quite possible that the shapeshifter's special forms will become feats. Being able to pause while in inventory screen: Yes. After all, you'll need the extra time to go through your six extra inventory slots. Paladin feats suggestions: I have suggested that a few of the paladin kit bonuses be turned into feats: * Fiendslayer (Cavalier) - Character gains +3 to hit and damage against dragons and demonic creatures. Requires: +3 BAB, Weapon Focus: Large Swords or Weapon Focus: Great Swords, Ability to lay on hands. * Heretic's Bane (Votary) - Character gains +3 to hit and damage against characters with cleric and druid levels. Requires: +3 BAB, 6 ranks of Spellcraft, ability to cast Divine Spells. Vampires: No vampires, but there are other energy draining creatures that you can grow to hate. Credit were credit is due: If you want to thank me for the design element of the changes being done, that's all well and good. However, I would like everyone to know that the only way these changes could be made is through the efforts of Bernie Weir, Danien Chee, Dave Boulanger, and Darren Monahan. They are the people who actually code all of these changes.

[Memnoch]

Some details about how multiclassing will be handled in IWDII, from the one and only J.E. Sawyer. as you can see they've taken the best elements of 3rd Ed D&D and applied them to IWDII.


Icewind Dale 2 will use 3E multiclassing rules. Unlike 2nd Edition, in which human characters dual-classed (start in one class, then stop in that class and start in a second, never to return) and demi-human characters split-classed (advance at an equal rate in two or more pre-selected classes), both humans and demi-humans have the same options available to them.

All characters start game play with one class. Every time the character advances, the player has the option of advancing in the character's current class, or adding a level in another class. The amount of experience required to advance is based off of total class levels (character level) rather than individual class levels. For example, it takes as much XP to advance a character from level 4 fighter to level 5 fighter as it does to advance a character from level 4 fighter to level 4 fighter/level 1 rogue.

Characters gain the full cumulative bonuses of all their levels instead of the "best of" between both classes. For instance, if a character has +4 BAB from his fighter levels and a +2 BAB from his wizard levels, he would have a +6 BAB, not +4. The same applies for saving throws.

Hit points are not divided between classes. A character gets the total hit dice for each set of class levels he or she has. E.g., a fighter 7 / rogue 4 / wizard 5 would have 7d10 + 4d6 + 5d4 hit points, modified by constitution.

Characters may multiclass to any class to which they do not have alignment conflicts, with the exception of the monk and paladin classes. Paladins and monks each have three orders that allow them to multiclass to one class and back again. For example, paladins of Ilmater, the god of suffering, may multiclass to cleric and back again. Dark Moon monks of Shar may multiclass to sorcerer and back again. No characters may multiclass into the paladin or monk classes after character creation.

In theory, a character can take as many classes as a player qualifies for. However, this typically makes the character much less effective than a single or double classed character. In addition, when class levels get out of synch with each other, the character can be penalized XP. Without going into the details of the formula, a character is penalized a small amount of XP whenever one or more of his or her classes is more than one level away from another. There is an exception to this rule: racial favored class. Each race has a favored class which is ignored for the purposes of calculating multiclass XP penalties. For elves, it is wizard. For dwarves, it is fighters. For halflings, it is thieves. For gnomes, it is wizard. For half-orcs, it is barbarian. Half-elves and humans always ignore the highest class level they have. This gives them a range of flexibility that the other classes lack.

EDIT: Paladin and monk orders:

Paladins of Ilmater (LG): May multiclass freely to cleric and back.
Paladins of Helm (LG): May multiclass freely to fighter and back.
Paladins of Mystra (LG): May multiclass freely to wizard and back.

Broken Ones (LG): May multiclass freely to cleric and back.
Old Order (LN): May multiclass freely to fighter and back.
Dark Moon (LE): May multiclass freely to sorcerer and back.

[Memnoch]

And here's some info on the types of races you can be in IWDII. As you can see, 3rd Ed has given them a lot of flexibility - you've even got planetouched races like aasimar and tieflings available, as well as being able to play full drow, duergar or svirfneblin races. From the Icewind Dale II Official Site.


HUMANS:

AASIMAR
Aasimar carry the blood of a celestial, the begotten offspring from the union of a mortal and a deity. Aasimar are usually good-aligned and fight against evil in the world. They typically have fair skin, golden eyes, and often a birthmark in the shape of the deity's holy symbol. Aasimar are blessed with insight and personal magnetism and are typically Paladins. They are considered wise and charismatic and are able to cast Sunscorch innately but at a cost to their experience points earned.

Advantages:
+2 to Wisdom, +2 to Charisma, Sunscorch 1/Day,and Acid, Cold, and Electrical Resistance: 5 points.

Disadvantages:
-35% Experience Points through 10th level (a little less than one level lower).

TIEFLING:
The infernal counterpart to aasimar, tieflings are humans with a hint of the diabolical in their bloodline. Though their appearance is mostly human, they often have tell-tale signs that belie their ancestry. Tieflings usually have dusky skin and dark or reddish hair. Though many sport small horns, cat eyes, or other bizarre features, most tieflings try to hide their abnormalities from humans. Tieflings are inherently intelligent and agile. They can also cast Blindness. These benefits come at the price of reduced Charisma and a cost to their experience points earned.

Advantages:
+2 to Intelligence, +2 to Dexterity, +10% to Hide in Shadows, Blindness 1/Day, and Cold, Fire, and Electrical Resistance: 5 points.

Disadvantages:
-2 to Charisma, and -35% Experience Points through 10th level (a little less than one level lower).

ELVES:

DROW ELF:
Dark elves, also known as drow, are the subterranean cousins of high elves. Their black skin and pale hair are a curse for their allegiance with the spider goddess, Lolth. Drow societies are usually ruled by cruel priestesses of Lolth and their noble houses. Dark elves are known for their arrogance, cruelty, and penchant for civil war. They are also more intelligent and agile than normal elves, but they fight very poorly when outside during daylight hours.

Advantages:
+2 to Dexterity, +2 to Intelligence, Faerie Fire 3/day, 25% Magic Resistance +1% per level, 90% Resistance to sleep and charm spells, +1 Attack Bonus with large swords and bows (not crossbows), +5% Pick Pockets, +5% Move Silently,and +10% Hide in Shadows.

Disadvantages:
-2 to Constitution, -50% Experience Points through 10th level (about one level lower), -2 attack bonus, Damage, and Saving Throws when outside during the day, -5% Open Locks.

WOOD ELF:
Wood elves, like their close cousins, wild elves, are more nature-oriented than high elves. Wood elves are often xenophobic and reclusive; preferring isolated tribal life to grand cities. However, wood elves occasionally do venture out into the world and are legendary for their fighting prowess and bravery. Wood elves typically have olive skin and coppery red or greenish brown hair. Wood elves are stronger and more agile than normal elves, but lack in Intelligence and hardiness.

Advantages:
+2 to Dexterity, 90% Resistance to sleep and charm spells, +1 Attack Bonus with large swords and bows (not crossbows), +5% Pick Pockets, +5% Move Silently, and +10% Hide in Shadows.

Disadvantages:
-2 to Intelligence, -5% Open Locks.

DWARVES:

GRAY DWARF:
Also known as duergar, the gray dwarves of the Forgotten Realms live even deeper underground than their shield dwarf and gold dwarf cousins. The duergar share little in common with other dwarves and practice slavery in their monstrous subterranean cities. Often motivated by greed and a thirst for power, gray dwarves are known throughout the Realms as devious, efficient warriors. Duergar almost always have gray hair and skin. Duergar are able to conceal themselves very well and are immune to paralysis. They suffer an experience point penalty as well as fighting very poorly when outside during the daylight hours.

Advantages:
+2 to Constitution, Invisibility 1/Day, Immunity to Paralysis, +20% to Move Silently, +4 Armor Bonus vs. giants, +10% to Open Locks, +15% to Find/Remove Traps, and +2 to saving throws vs. paralyze, poison, death magic, and spells.

Disadvantages:
-2 to Charisma, -50% Experience Points through 10th level (about one level lower), and -2 attack bonus, Damage, and Saving Throws when outside during the day.

GOLD DWARF:
In a time when the dwarven race is in sad decline, the gold dwarves of the Realms received a divine gift from Moradin, the Soul Forger. The father of the dwarven gods granted the Thunder Blessing upon his people, resulting in a slow growth of the gold dwarf population. Though its effects may not be felt for decades, gold dwarves are already starting to re-establish themselves in the Realms as shrewd traders and proud, if somewhat haughty, warriors. Gold dwarves gain bonuses again denizens of the Underdark but are less agile than normal dwarves.

Advantages:
+2 to Constitution; +1 attack bonus vs. drow, mind flayers, and driders; +2 to saving throws vs. paralyze, poison, death magic, and spells; +4 armor bonus vs. giants, +10% to Open Locks, +15% to Find/Remove Traps.

Disadvantages:
-2 to Dexterity

HALFLINGS:

LIGHTFOOT HALFLING:
Unlike the more segregated strongheart halflings, the lightfoots of the Forgotten Realms are a common sight in human, elven, and dwarven lands. Lightfoot halflings are known for their incredible luck and their love of travel. They tend to be more gregarious than even their strongheart kin. Unfortunately lightfoot halflings are not as strong as normal halflings.

Advantages:
+1 to all saving throws; +2 to saving throws vs. paralyze, poison, death magic, and spells; +1 attack bonus with slings, daggers, and darts; +5% to Pick Pockets, +5% to Open Locks, +5% to Find/Remove Traps, +10% to Move Silently,* +15% to Hide in Shadows.

Disadvantages:
-2 to Strength.

GHOSTWISE HALFLING:
Ghostwise halflings are the feral, reclusive cousins of lightfoot and strongheart halflings. They are found most often in the southern forests of the Realms living in small communities. Ghostwise halflings are rarely seen in large cities, but occasionally set out to explore the world for reasons known only to them. Visitors to ghostwise settlements often report that the halflings have kinship so tight with their fellows that they can communicate without speaking. Ghostwise halflings are more agile than their normal kin and gain the ability set snares once per day. This comes at a cost to their experience points earned.

Advantages:
+2 to Dexterity, Set Natural Snares 1/Day; +2 to saving throws vs. paralyze, poison, death magic, and spells; +1 attack Bonus with slings, daggers, and darts; +5% to Pick Pockets, +5% to Open Locks, +5% to Find/Remove Traps, +10% to Move Silently, +15% to Hide in Shadows.

Disadvantages:
35% Experience Points through 10th level (a little less than one level lower).

GNOMES:

DEEP GNOME:
Also known as svirfneblin, the deep gnomes of the Realms are a secretive, mysterious race. Found in the deepest caverns of the Underdark, the svirfneblin live in constant fear of slavery or destruction at the hands or dark elves, mind flayers, and duergar. Deep gnomes are legendary for their ability to handle stone and gems. They have gray skin and gray or white hair. They are more agile than their surface dwelling kin and gain concealment abilities. These benefits are offset by their inability to deal with outsiders and a cost to their experience points earned.

Advantages:
+2 to Dexterity, +2 to Intelligence, 25% Magic Resistance +1% per level, Mirror Image 1/Day, Invisibility 1/Day, Blur 1/Day, Constant Non-Detection, +2 to saving throws vs. spells, +4 to armor bonus vs. giants, +1 attack bonus vs. kobolds and goblins, +5% to Open Locks, +10% to Find/Remove Traps, +5% to Move Silently, and +5% to Hide in Shadows.

Disadvantages:
-2 to Strength, -2 to Constitution, -2 to Charisma, and -60% Experience Points through 10th level (about one level lower).



[ 03-17-2002, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Memnoch]

And last but not least, some critters you'll be facing!





A bugbear...



...a goblin worgrider...



...a hook horror...



...and a neo-orog shaman!



The graphics look really cool...

[Larry_OHF]

Sunday, March 17, 2002 On the Black Isle Developer Boards Sunday, March 17, 2002, 09:08 | MageDragon From the Black Isle Developer message boards. Doug Avery (Associate Producer) Number of CDs: We haven't put any of our builds on CD officially yet. I did burn a copy of it to take home and play and it was 2 full CDs and 1 half full. About 1.5 GB overall. We have not done all of our optimization yet, but we also don't have all of our sounds in either. I am guessing it will be 3 CDs, but we'll have to see later on when everything is in place. Kevin Osburn (Line Producer) Kits being cut: The kits were not taken out of the game to just to make QA's job easier, in fact QA really didn't factor into the decision to cut the kits. The fact that QA's job would be a bit easier now is a bonus to the situation. Working in a Quality Assurance department isn't as easy as it sounds, but our QA teams are doing a great job on IWD2. J.E. Sawyer (Lead Designer) 3E feats: 3E feats like Power Attack and Expertise trade their stats at a 1:1 ratio. You can use those abilities in a tactical fashion, turning them off and on as your situation changes. I played a 3E fighter with Power Attack, Cleave, and Great Cleave. When fighting heavily armored bad*****, I wouldn't use my Power Attack feat. When fighting a throng of goblins in hide armor, I'd bust my Power Attack up to maximum and slaughter four of them in one shot. This essentially works because you can't opt-out of the penalties; you have to use your head, since you know you'll be rolling to-hit and damage consecutively. You can opt-out of a penalty to cold spells by never (or rarely) using them. It's the kensai mentality. Mind Flayers: Mind Flayers in IWD2 are pretty tough, but not ridiculous. The most frustrating thing about them is their tendency to Plane Shift away when they get below 50% hit points. However, if you have a fighter with a low or average Wisdom, he or she will get stunned and/or dominated and/or have his or her brain devoured. Prestige classes: There will not be prestige classes in IWD2. Sorry. Touch spells: Touch spells ignore the Armor Bonus portion of Armor Class. If a character had a 22 AC, 6 points of Armor Bonus, 2 points of Shield Bonus, 4 points of Dexterity Bonus, a touch spell would only need to overcome a 16 AC (22 - 6). 3E clerics: Have you played a 3E cleric? With Spontaneous Conversion, they're among the most awesome characters in the game. Domains are like free feats -- in fact, their powers often replicate or grant free feats. So, not only do 3E clerics have two good saves, the 2nd best BAB, d8 hit points, the ability to wear heavy armor, turn undead, cast spells, and spontaneously convert them to healing, but they also get two domains at first level that grant feat-like abilities. Taking away domains hardly cripples them. I'm also failing to understand how combat-oriented feats are "for fighters only". Do your clerics never enter combat? Maybe I'm just funny with how I play clerics, but mine are always at the front line. Personally, I wouldn't mine having my cleric take Power Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Casting, Improved Critical, Dash, Dodge, or other combat-oriented feats. Clerics in 3E do not have to pray for the various Cure X Wounds spells if they are good. Evil clerics do not have to pray for the various Inflict X Wounds spells. Neutral characters get a choice between the two at character creation. Basically, a cleric can just memorize combat, buff, and miscellaneous spells. If he or she needs a healing spell, they can spontaneously convert that spell into a healing spell of the nearest level (go down if there is not one at the current level). So, for example, if a cleric converted Hold Person, it would become Cure Moderate Wounds. If a cleric converted Blade Barrier, it would become Cure Critical Wounds. If an evil cleric converted Neutralize Poison, it would become Inflict Serious Wounds. Chad Nicholas (Sciptor) Porting Icewind Dale into new Icewind Dale II IE engine: It's not always hard-coded, but unfortunately to get very special and specific events to happen, sometimes a bit of hackery is needed to get the IE to play nice. Besides, all the scripts from IwD1 would not work in IwD2. We've changed the way the engine parses the scripts so that it's faster and more reliable, and we've changed a lot of the script functions to take more parameters. All of these improvements mean that IwD1 scripts (and creature files, and item files, etc., etc.) are not compatible with IwD2. Someone would have to rewrite/convert all those little data files so that they could be read by IwD2. Adventuring parties as enemies: There are a few battles in the game that - while you wouldn't call the opponents "an adventuring party" per se - the enemy group does end up working together and helping each other out (and they have Phat L00t, too). Saturday, March 16, 2002 J.E. Sawyer Interview Saturday, March 16, 2002, 07:57 | MageDragon IGN PC has posted an interview with J.E. Sawyer, Lead Designer for Icewind Dale II. There is also a 15MB MPEG trailer showing some of the game play. IGNPC: We all thought that the combat in Icewind Dale was quite compelling. Combat in the 3rd edition seems much more sophisticated than the rules you used for the first Icewind Dale. What changes can players expect to see in combat? J.E. Sawyer: To be honest, I think the primary thing that makes 3E combat seem more "sophisticated" is the use of attacks of opportunity. Those rules are easily the most confusing and among the most often criticized elements of the system. Some people love them, some people hate them -- but they definitely do add a very heavy layer of complexity to the rules. Overall, I believe that the subset of 3E rules we are implementing will make the game much easier to understand, much more customizable, and ultimately, just more fun.

[Larry_OHF]

Monday, March 18, 2002 On the Black Isle Developer Boards Monday, March 18, 2002, 17:27 | MageDragon From the Black Isle Developer message boards. J.E. Sawyer (Lead Designer) Cleric feats: You know why most of those cleric feats aren't on our list right now? Many of them are poorly balanced. In fact, that whole book has some serious balance problems. That doesn't mean that the spirit of those feats couldn't be implemented, but many of them, as written, are... psycho. Clerics using pointed weapons: Yep. However, you'll suffer the normal penalties for using them without the proper Martial Weapon feat. The nice thing about elves is that they can start gameplay with a MW feat in either Bows or Large Swords, regardless of class. Attribute numbers and bonuses: And yes, a 9 does grant a penalty of -1 by the book. That's also the way it works in IWD2. 1: -5 2-3: -4 4-5: -3 6-7: -2 8-9: -1 10-11: 0 12-13: +1 14-15: +2 16-17: +3 18-19: +4 20-21: +5 High attribute bonuses affecting spells: No, just the saving throw. However, high ability scores grant bonus spells. Dexterity affecting touch spells: It is only used like that for rays and other ranged touch attacks. We are not using that formula for ranged touch attacks (they always hit). However, melee touch attacks ignore the armor portion of AC. Will saves and mind spells: Yes, if I understand the question. Mind spells will use the Will saving throw category. Will is modified by the victim's Wisdom bonus. XP tables being the same for all classes: Correct. Saving throws: The target must roll d20, then add his or her saving throw + ability score modifier. E.g.: Marfain Vaer casts Tasha's Hideous Laughter at Aganti Devasquel. The dark elf sorceress is casting a 2nd level spell and she has a 20 Charisma. Ergo, the Will DC to resist her spell is 10 + 2 + 5 = 17. Aganti the halfling rogue is 5th level and has a measly +1 Will save. However, he has a +1 to all saving throws due to his race. Unfortunately, he has a 9 Wisdom, so he has -1 on top of that. +1, +1, -1 = +1. Aganti must roll a 16 or better on his d20 roll to match (and thereby overcome) the spell. It increases as they level up, but not at a 1:1 ratio. Generally, each character class has one or two good saving throws and one or two "bad" saving throws. For example, rogue characters have good Reflex saving throws, but poor Fortitude and Will saving throws. At 5th level, a rogue has +4 to his or her Reflex saves, +1 to his or her Fortitude and Will saves. Fighters also have crappy Will saves, which is why in IWD2, fighters with low Wisdom scores can get killed very quickly in battles with clerics and wizards using Hold Person or Mental Domination. Characters can get pretty high ability score bonuses through the use of additional ability score points and spell enhancements. If Marfain Vaer were 8th level, she could have two additional points in Charisma, raising it to 22. If she cast a spell like Eagle's Splendor (which is not in IWD2 -- sorry), she could raise it to 26 or 27. That's a +8. So, yes, saving throw DCs can get pretty high. Clerics converting non healing spells into healing spells: Yes. Unless the character is an evil cleric. In that case, he or she converts his or her spells into Inflict Wounds spells. I think we're going to default to healing for neutral. If you play an evil cleric, you will have to memorize cure spells because they spontaneously convert to inflict. It does not convert to Heal. A 6th or higher level spell that is spontaneously converted would transform into Cure Critical Wounds. It will not be able to transform into the Cure Disease/Cure Blindness type spells. Just healing. Old areas revisited: There are three areas from IWD in IWD2: Kuldahar, Dragon's Eye, and one other location. The art has been re-done to reflect the changes that took place over thirty years. And, of course, the areas have all new design. Skills: We will probably be expanding the skill selection. Tidbit from the trailer/movie (floating text): "He-Who-Never-Sleeps" is Gruumsh, the one-eyed leader of the orcish pantheon. Bards: Bards will start being proficient in all simple weapons, MW: Large Sword, and/or MW: Bow. They will also start with AP: Light Armor, AP: Medium Armor, and AP: Shields. The Riddlemaster's powers may become bard-only feats. Bards will gain bonus spells for high Charisma. Also, the save DCs for their spells will be derived from Charisma. Feats and Fallout: Feats in D&D 3E operate in almost the exact same manner as Perks in Fallout. However, unlike the Perks in Fallout, you gain a Feat at 1st level. Like the Perks in Fallout, you gain an additional Feat every three levels. Monk avatar: It may not be used. Cleric kits: Wow, this is awesome! Everyone moans about how crappy the cleric kits are, and then when they get taken away and replaced with multiclassing and feats, people cry about it. Silverstar of Selune: Like a cleric with two druid spells, a special color-spray-esque spell, and no turn undead. Battleguard of Tempus: Like a cleric with an additional cleric spell, the ability to use martial weapons, incite berserker rage, and no turn undead. Dreadmaster of Bane: Like a cleric with two additional cleric spells and no turn undead. It seemed like the most unified complaint about the kits in IWD2 revolved around the cleric kits. You can make much more interesting and diverse characters using multiclassing and feats. Really. If what you're really missing is a name, sorry, I can't help you there. A board member already made some good suggestions on how to create very good analogies for specialty priest kits. Going off of his suggestions, you can come up with many more. Demarch of Mask: Cleric with rogue levels. Priest of Corellon: Cleric with fighter and wizard levels. Priest of Oghma: Cleric with bard levels. Combine these with feats, and you have many more options for making distinctive cleric characters. Druids: Druids can be neutral good, lawful neutral, true neutral, chaotic neutral, or neutral evil. They start with proficiency in light armor, but they can take feats in heavier armor if they wish to do so. DO YOU, READER, NOT BELIEVE THAT DRUIDS SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO THIS? DO NOT TAKE HEAVIER ARMOR FEATS. They start with most simple weapon proficiencies. However, they do not start with SW: Crossbows and they do start with MW: Large Swords. Some of the druid kit abilities may become feats. They also may gain a few other little tidbits. Rogue changing into a Paladin: I can safely say that there are no role-playing opportunities in IWD2 that would justify a transition from rogue to paladin. Multiclassing to a Paladin: A paladin must pick an order (Ilmater, Helm, or Mystra) at character creation. From that order, one multiclassing option is derived. Ilmaterians can multi- to cleric and back. Helm's paladins can multi- to fighter and back. Mystra's paladins can multi- to wizard and back. That's all. You cannot multi- to the paladin class in IWD2. Turning undead: This way. It's not modal. You hit the special abilities button, hit the turn undead button, and *BOOM* -- your character does a split-second cast animation, and undead drop. The mechanics work exactly as they do in 3E. Skills: CAVEAT LECTOR: This is a premature list, subject to change. Don't cry too much if some of these skills or subsystems aren't implemented in the game. Icewind Dale 2 will be using a small portion of the 3E skills and the 3E method for distributing skill points based on class, level, race, and the Intelligence stat. The following skills are planned for implementation: * Animal Empathy – Allows the user to charm animals (Drd, Rgr only) * Bluff - Character can gain dialogue options to deceive opponents (Brd, Rog, Sor*) * Concentration – Prevents the disruption of spellcasting (Brd, Clr, Drd, Mnk, Pal, Rgr, Sor, Wiz) * Diplomacy - Character can gain dialogue options to maintain peaceful relations and still get his or her way (Brd, Clr, Drd, Mnk, Pal, Rog, Sor*) * Disable Device - Disarms traps (Rog) * Hide – Conceals the character from sight (Brd, Mnk, Rgr, Rog) * Intimidate - Character can gain dialogue options to imply threats through dialogue (Bbn, Ftr*, Rog) * Lore: Alchemy - Allows the character to identify potions (Brd, Clr, Drd, Sor, Wiz) * Lore: Arms and Armor - Allows the character to identify magical weapons and armor (Brd, Clr, Drd, Ftr, Pal, Rgr, Sor, Wiz) * Lore: Ex Miscellanea - Allows the character to identify miscellaneous magical items (Brd, Clr, Drd, Sor, Wiz) * Lore: Scrolls and Wands - Allows the character to identify scrolls and wands (Brd, Clr, Drd, Pal, Rgr, Sor, Wiz) * Move Silently – Prevents the character from being detected (Brd, Mnk, Rgr, Rog) * Open Lock – Opens locks and similar devices (Rog) * Pick Pockets – Lift valuables off of neutral targets (Brd, Rog) * Search - Used to find traps and similar concealed items (Rgr, Rog) * Spellcraft – Identifies enemy spells as they are being cast (Brd, Clr, Drd, Sor, Wiz). * Use Magic Device – Activates wands and scrolls despite class restrictions (Brd, Rog only) * Wilderness Lore – Tracking (Rgr only) The classes listed in parentheses are the classes that take those skills at a 1:1 cost. If a class is not listed behind a given skill, it must spend 2 points to gain one rank in a skill. If a skill has "only" listed after its classes, only the listed classes may purchase ranks in the skill (and use it). Classes get the following number of skill points at 1st level. Barbarian: (4 + Int modifier) x4 Bard: (4 + Int modifier) x4 Cleric: (2 + Int modifier) x4 Druid: (4 + Int modifier) x4 Fighter: (2 + Int modifier) x4 Monk: (4 + Int modifier) x4 Paladin: (2 + Int modifier) x4 Ranger: (6 + Int modifier) x4* Rogue: (8 + Int modifier) x4 Sorcerer: (4 + Int modifier) x4* Wizard: (2 + Int modifier) x4 Every level thereafter, they receive the base amount (X + Int modifier). For example, Invae Cathimon begins play as a Ranger. Her Intelligence is 14, resulting in a bonus of +2. She begins with 32 skill points ([6+2]x4). At 2nd level, she takes a level of Fighter. For that level, she receives an additional 4 (2+2) skill points. Characters can only have a number of ranks in their skills equal to their class level +3. A 5th level character could only have 8 ranks in Hide, for instance. Humans gain 4 extra skill points at 1st level and an additional 1 point every level. Several other races have small bonuses to the listed skills. Elves gain +2 to Search, Gnomes gain +2 to Lore: Alchemy, Half-Elves gain +1 to Search, and Halflings gain +2 to Move Silently (no, they don't get the size bonus to Hide because they don't suffer any the penalties of Small size). We are still working out the details of this system. For instance, what happens when a player creates a Human Rogue with an 18 Intelligence. Stuff like that. We will have skill resolution details later on. * Non-canonical Remember, everyone, THIS IS NOT IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW. IT MAY NOT GO IN THE GAME AS LISTED. Don't bank on this stuff, as it is, by no means, a sure thing. Fighters will be able to put their skill points into anything but Use Magic Device, Animal Empathy, and Wilderness Lore. However, the only skills they could buy at a 1:1 ratio would be Intimidate and Lore: Arms and Armor. Fighters have never been skill-oriented characters. Even in 3E PnP, their access to skills simply allows them to tag along with characters that can use those skills more effectively. How often do the fighters actually climb or sneak with the rogues? How often do they jump the huge gap that the monk casually bounds over? Not often. With 2 skill points, there's only so much you can do. And isn't having access to some skills better than having no access to skills? Bard lore skill: Well... 1) Bards have all Lore skills as class skills and gain 4 SP per level. 2) Instead of "only" being useful for Lore, your Bard can now do other stuff, like using Hide and Move Silently. Parties to choose from at the start: IWD2 will have two or three adventuring companies, complete with character bios and company backgrounds, for you to select. Complaints about switching to 3E rules: Your initial post lamented the arrival of "MUNCHKINMANIA" because of recent 3E changes. From this, I can only assume the removal of kits and the inclusion of 3E multiclassing and feats. I will first address these issues: 1a) Kits were never balanced to begin with. Not kits in the books, not kits in IE games. The archer was not a balanced kit. The kensai was not a balanced kit. Whatever balance might have been "inherent" in AD&D class/multi-class/dual-class system was ruined by the inclusion of poorly balanced kits. So, lamenting the loss of kits because it ruins balance is a poor argument; they were never balanced to begin with. 1b) I will now move to the merits of 3E multiclassing. While we all know that 3E multiclassing offers more options than 2nd Ed. multiclassing, that wasn't the focus of your attack. You attacked the change because of "character stability" issues. Let us examine a sample character to test this argument. Here is Valian, an elven Mage/Thief. In 2nd Edition, let's say he has 140,000 XP. This puts him at a divided 70,000 XP -- enough to be a 7th level Mage/8th level Thief. He can cast 4 1st, 3 2nd, 2 3rd, and 1 4th level spell. He has a backstab multiplier of x3, and 270 skill points to distribute. Compare him to a 9th level Mage and a 9th level Thief. The 9th level mage can cast one more 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spell. The thief has a x4 backstab multiplier and 240 skill points to distribute. Let's use Valian in 3E. If he had enough XP to be an 8th level character, he would be a 4th level Wizard, 4th level Rogue. He can cast 3 1st level spells, 2 2nd level spells. He has +1d6 sneak attack, and, 48 skill points. Compare him to an 8th level Mage and an 8th level Rogue. The 8th level mage can cast 1 more 1st, and 2nd level spell, 3 more 3rd level spells, and 2 more 4th level spells. The 8th level Rogue has +4d6 sneak attack and 88 skill points. Mathematically, the 2nd Ed. multiclassed character is getting much more "out of the deal" than the 3E multiclassed character. Ergo, complaints that the removal of 2nd Ed. multiclassing and the introduction of 3E multiclassing causes balance problems are unfounded. 2) The changing of percentile systems to a d20 base does very little to change the mechanics of how they operate, as does the inversion of of AC and THAC0. Mathematically, the same integers are passing back and forth; their absolute value has simply been changed. Let us examine THAC0, which you specifically cited. In 2nd Edition, a player rolled a d20 and added their bonuses to hit. If the sum was equal to or greater than the character's THAC0 minus AC, the character hit. In 3E, a player rolls a d20 and adds his or her bonuses to hit. If the sum is equal to or greater than the target's AC, the character hits. The change here is a subtle one; THAC0 is not subtracted from. It is now BAB, which is added. AC values are, in most cases, identical, so they are simply added to 10, maintaining the same mathematical relationship. Because the mathematics work out almost identically, they do not cause any balance problems that did not already exist in 2nd Edition AD&D. The use of the argument "it must be too hard for you" is not an argument against the system, it is an argument against the people using the system. Any argument against the mathematics of the system are impotent specifically because they work out identically. 3) The presence or absence of weapon speed is good or bad depending on your preference. Many people do not like weapon speed or find AD&D 2nd Ed's "system" of its implementation to be unrealistic. However, even if you love weapon speed, the manner in which it is implemented in the IE is not true to the PnP rules. When a character with a slow weapon gets multiple attacks per round, the weapon speed delay gets truncated in order to fit all of a characters attacks into a round. Weapons in IWD2 still have weapon speed; mostly because it doesn't make much of a difference whether it is present or absent. And if you didn't want to play a dual-classed human character, what made it an attractive character option compared to an elf or dwarf? An 8th level dwarven fighter in 2nd Ed. is just better than an 8th level human fighter. The notion of balance in an RPG system is not there to force roleplaying decisions. It is present so that a player does not feel penalized simply for playing a character in a certain way. It's interesting that you see it that way. I try not to let systems stand in the way of roleplaying choices that I make. In 2nd Ed., my fighter with a low strength, lower con, high int and higher dex was practically useless to the party. I still played him to the best of his abilities; it's just that his abilities were pretty limited by the ruleset. That same character in 3E was not a liability to the party. He was quite knowledgeable, often using his Knowledge: Religion and Knowledge: Arcana to catch checks that the wizard missed. He could often (but not always) creep alongside the party thief to help with scouting and backup. I definitely agree with you that the rulebooks place less emphasis on role-playing than previous rulebooks, and that is unfortunate. Then again, I don't see people role-playing any more or less, regardless of system. Someone who role-plays in AD&D 2nd Ed. is just as likely to role-play in 3E, Shadowrun, GURPS, or Rifts. As long as the people I play with are playing for the same reasons, I don't really care what anyone else does. Damien Foletto (Junior Designer) Being able to kill entire towns: There are several areas where you can do the things you describe. As far as I know (and in the areas I'm responsible for), anything that is moving is fair game. Granted, there are repercussions for dastardly deeds, but it's your game, slaughter what you like. On that same token, there are several instances where the best solution is not always the violent solution. For example, in one area there is a barghest whelp that will ask for your assistance with a dispute he has with a dekanter goblin. If you maneuver correctly and not be a hot head, you'll leave with both the whelp and goblin alive, get a boat load of XP and a few magical goodies to boot - or you can just kill both and not deal with it - it's up to you. BTW - Playing an evil character doesn't necessarily mean you go around killing everything in sight - that's psychotic. A truly evil character does plenty of good deeds to feed the illusion of not being evil, and then will do the nasty deeds when he/she feels it's safe for them and not gets caught. The act of getting away with the evil without raising suspicion from the victims is usually the most evil acts of all. Chad Nicholas (Sciptor) Portraits from Torn being used: None of the portraits for TORN are being used in IwD2. However, I know there is at least one creature that was converted for use. I won't say what creature it is, but you might recognize it when you get to it. Tex Yang (Quality Assurance) Soloing: Well, for all you soloers out there, just thought I'd add something here real quick: When I jumped on the project (at the end of) HoW and through ToTL, I was notorious for being able to go through the game with one character in barely a couple hours (Level 1, crit path starting from Easthaven and into the expansion area only, a little longer for harder classes like a straight mage), but even though I know everything in the first few areas, it's definitely no walk in the park soloing through them (Can't comment on the mid-to-late areas as I haven't had a chance to solo through those).

[Larry_OHF]

On the Black Isle Developer Boards
Tuesday, March 19, 2002, 15:36 | MageDragon
From the Black Isle Developer message boards.

Doug Avery (Associate Producer)

Switching to 3E rules: I can assure you that it definitely was not for convenience. If we were looking for the simplest solution possible, why would we have changed anything at all about the engine? We are making the change to 3E because that was what we originally planned for. To get the game as close to 3E as possible. As we've gotten more and more time to finish the game we've made more and more changes in this direction. Right now, it looks like we're a hair's breadth from being completely 3E. 3E is also Dungeons & Dragons. I grew up on AD&D 1E and made the switch to 2E when it came out. It clarified some rules for me and I really liked the optional rules. I believe that 3E improves on the rules yet again and is much more consistent than the previous versions.

J.E. Sawyer (Lead Designer)

Multiclassing with Paladins and Monks: A paladin of Helm (not Tempus; there are no paladins of Tempus) can multiclass back and forth to fighter. No paladin can multiclass to any class other than the one specified by his or her order. Same for monks. No class may multiclass INTO paladin or monk; characters must start as paladins or monks.

Two handed style not being a feat: Only two-handed style. Shields are a little more useful in 3E, and two-weapon fighting is not as useful.

A greatsword does 2d6 damage and the user adds his Strength bonus x 1.5 to the total.

A half-orc fighter with a 22 Strength and three attacks a round can do 33-63 points of damage.

If that same half-orc fighter were using two longswords, he would get four attacks per round. The on-hand attacks would do 1d8+6 damage. The off-hand would do 1d8+3 damage. He does 25-53 points of damage. On top of that, he has to take a sucking chest wound of two feats just to do it without having massive penalties to hit.

Rangers: Monte Cook helped design the 3E ranger and even he has written, repeatedly, that he was always concerned about how the class was balanced. That's why he created the Monte Cook ranger. That's why many people use it. That's why many third party 3E character generators allow you to select "Ranger" or "Monte Cook Ranger" from their list of classes.

Three feats at first level? Does that sound like a reasonable starting point for a class? It's the most often-abused multiclassing combination. Are you a rogue? Would you like three feats, a hated enemy, and d10 hit points? Take a level of ranger, never to return.

Rules do not exist for their own sake. Rules exist to create a structure in which "fun time" happens. If you want me to follow a set of rules just because they exist -- sorry, that's not a good reason.

The 3E ranger is forced to have feats that have little or nothing to do with being a ranger (Ranger Ambidexterity, Ranger Two-Weapon Fighting). The 1st Edition ranger did not have any proficiency with using two weapons. On top of that, the 1st Edition ranger had d8 hit points. The only reason the 2nd Edition ranger had two-weapon fighting abilities was because of Drizzt Do'Urden. I have displayed this temporal chain before, but in case you missed it:

* Unearthed Arcana is released. Rangers have no special abilities with two-weapon fighting. However, dark elves, listed in the book, do have special abilities with two-weapon fighting. * Crystal Shard is released. Drizzt Do'Urden, a dark elf ranger, uses two scimitars. * The 2nd Edition Player's Handbook is released. Rangers have special abilities with two-weapon fighting. Unlike almost every other class ability in the Player's Handbook, this particular class ability is not explained. It is simply listed as a class feature of the ranger.

In 3E, rangers start with three feats, one of which makes sense: Track. If you do not want to wield two weapons, you are "wasting" two of the ostensible benefits of your class. However, if you are a rogue or sorcerer who happens to want the sweetest, cheapest deal in the Player's Handbook, you take a level of ranger and abandon it. That's poor design and class structure, plain and simple.

Damien Foletto (Junior Designer)

Demons and Pit Fiends: Demons in IWD2 are much nastier than in any IE game to date. Their abilities are as close as possible to the abilities they have in the Planescape Monstrous Compendium (with 3E updates).

A Pit Fiend that actually acts like a Pit Fiend.

Drow daylight penalty: As it stands now, Drow get a -2 to attack bonuses, damage and saving throws when in the daylight. Considering all the advantages they get, this is actually pretty minor.

And no, the majority of the game does not take place in the Underdark. There are plenty of very diverse areas to explore.

The penalty only applies to the outside, in daylight. Indoors the penalties do not apply (unless someone does a False Dawn spell or something like that).