No kits?

toriuxik · 12-07-2001, 09:27 PM

Is there none of the snazy kits in this game?

They made BG2 more interesting. Oh well. I hope I'm wrong but I just doubt it.

Memnoch · 12-08-2001, 02:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by toriuxik:
Is there none of the snazy kits in this game? They made BG2 more interesting. Oh well. I hope I'm wrong but I just doubt it.

Kits don't really exist as such in 3rd Ed. You've got a whole bunch of classes that you can chop and change however you want (within reason). For example you can go and be a wizard, but get a few levels of fighter if you want to learn how to use a sword. Your level might end up being Wiz10/Ftr2 or something like that.

You have more freedom in deciding what your character ends up being - a true multiclass (Wiz7/Ftr6/Rog5 for example), or a specialist who happens to dabble in a couple of other things (Wiz10/Ftr2/Rog1). I'm not sure if they will be implementing any prestige classes (Red Wizard, Divine Champion, etc).

AFAIK, you'll also be able to choose Feats that will further round out your character (much like in Fallout).

toriuxik · 12-10-2001, 02:11 PM

*likes 2nd edition more now* =(

Worm · 12-10-2001, 08:17 PM

How can you say that? Look firstly you can make killer classes with no race limits. Dwarven palidans, Halfing rangers, and Orcish bards!

toriuxik · 12-12-2001, 01:19 PM

I'd rather not use a halfling for anything but a thief for the obvious reasons, and I would rather use a half orc wizard slayer, or dwarven battlerager than a bard one.

Russ · 12-13-2001, 11:45 AM

Yep. While I might agree that the class flexibility is more true to life, the prestige classes are way overpowered (what on earth is a paladin or ranger, if not a prestige class? Anybody ever thought of how incredibly unbalancing a mere 1st-level totemic druid would be?), and, much the worse, the rules trivialize the differences between the sentient species, reducing them to nothing but races.

What's a halfling that's not a short nimble human?
What's a dwarf that's not a short strong stocky human?
What's a half-orc that's not a big strong unbrilliant human?
What's an elf, that's not just a human with pointy ears and long life?

It totally destroys the roleplaying involved. There's a REASON different species don't produce certain classes... paladinhood is based on human concepts, one of which is the fragility and shortness of life.. makes no sense for an elf to be one. Dwarfs don't produce wizards... but they make wonderful magic items. How? Well, humans produce them in military factories or wizards' workshops, but for a dwarf, smithing and manufacturing is literally a religious experience...

3rd ed. destroys all of that.

toriuxik · 12-13-2001, 01:04 PM

I agree, having every race able to be anything, the game gets a little messed. I like the idea, but I don't think it makes much sense really, as said above, dwarves aren't much for mages.... It doesn't work well for them. They can, but they are naturally non-magical.... Forging aside of course.

Paladins are indeed from the human point of view. An elf isn't as ready to toss away some 500 years of life for the potential to maybe slow down the massive orc invasion... While a human paladin would do so at the drop of a hat (or helm =)

Russ · 12-13-2001, 01:11 PM

Of course not. The elven archer would simply sneak into the orcish camp, find out who the leaders are, and fill them full of arrows, which would buy the elves another 400 years until another orc with that sort of leadership potential arose again...

Konfuzed and Zany · 01-24-2002, 01:54 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Russ:
Yep. While I might agree that the class flexibility is more true to life, the prestige classes are way overpowered (what on earth is a paladin or ranger, if not a prestige class? Anybody ever thought of how incredibly unbalancing a mere 1st-level totemic druid would be?), and, much the worse, the rules trivialize the differences between the sentient species, reducing them to nothing but races.

What's a halfling that's not a short nimble human?
What's a dwarf that's not a short strong stocky human?
What's a half-orc that's not a big strong unbrilliant human?
What's an elf, that's not just a human with pointy ears and long life?

It totally destroys the roleplaying involved. There's a REASON different species don't produce certain classes... paladinhood is based on human concepts, one of which is the fragility and shortness of life.. makes no sense for an elf to be one. Dwarfs don't produce wizards... but they make wonderful magic items. How? Well, humans produce them in military factories or wizards' workshops, but for a dwarf, smithing and manufacturing is literally a religious experience...

3rd ed. destroys all of that.

I am sorry But If You would say A Dwarf can never be a Sorcerer
IMHO that's rediculous
Dwarves can get Chaotic Evil instead of Lawful Good right?
Why can't they become sorcerers
The DM guide says it's not Normal and it doesn't happen often
But it Should be possible
after all, the Dwarves who go adventuring are normally outcasts of their Society, And in their society Sorcerers are outcasts

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Konfuzed and Zany ]

toriuxik · 01-24-2002, 10:11 AM

Dwarves don't make good mages because they have mental and biological difficulties with magic, as well as having large, stuby and unnimble fingers not suited for spellcasting intracacies... Also, dwarves that are adventurers aren't even usually outcasts. Some are, but some who daren't are also outcasts. Dwarves don't make a good mage because of this. Just as elves are a part of the magical weave, dwarves are utterly NOT a part (As not as can possibly be).

12-08-2001, 02:57 PM	#2
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	quote: Originally posted by toriuxik: Is there none of the snazy kits in this game? They made BG2 more interesting. Oh well. I hope I'm wrong but I just doubt it. Kits don't really exist as such in 3rd Ed. You've got a whole bunch of classes that you can chop and change however you want (within reason). For example you can go and be a wizard, but get a few levels of fighter if you want to learn how to use a sword. Your level might end up being Wiz10/Ftr2 or something like that. You have more freedom in deciding what your character ends up being - a true multiclass (Wiz7/Ftr6/Rog5 for example), or a specialist who happens to dabble in a couple of other things (Wiz10/Ftr2/Rog1). I'm not sure if they will be implementing any prestige classes (Red Wizard, Divine Champion, etc). AFAIK, you'll also be able to choose Feats that will further round out your character (much like in Fallout). __________________

12-13-2001, 11:45 AM	#6
Russ Manshoon Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Texas, baby! Posts: 163	Yep. While I might agree that the class flexibility is more true to life, the prestige classes are way overpowered (what on earth is a paladin or ranger, if not a prestige class? Anybody ever thought of how incredibly unbalancing a mere 1st-level totemic druid would be?), and, much the worse, the rules trivialize the differences between the sentient species, reducing them to nothing but races. What's a halfling that's not a short nimble human? What's a dwarf that's not a short strong stocky human? What's a half-orc that's not a big strong unbrilliant human? What's an elf, that's not just a human with pointy ears and long life? It totally destroys the roleplaying involved. There's a REASON different species don't produce certain classes... paladinhood is based on human concepts, one of which is the fragility and shortness of life.. makes no sense for an elf to be one. Dwarfs don't produce wizards... but they make wonderful magic items. How? Well, humans produce them in military factories or wizards' workshops, but for a dwarf, smithing and manufacturing is literally a religious experience... 3rd ed. destroys all of that. __________________ --What? What will come out no more, huh?

12-13-2001, 01:11 PM	#8
Russ Manshoon Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Texas, baby! Posts: 163	Of course not. The elven archer would simply sneak into the orcish camp, find out who the leaders are, and fill them full of arrows, which would buy the elves another 400 years until another orc with that sort of leadership potential arose again... __________________ --What? What will come out no more, huh?

01-24-2002, 01:54 AM	#9
Konfuzed and Zany Manshoon Join Date: November 2, 2001 Location: Bed Posts: 247	quote: Originally posted by Russ: Yep. While I might agree that the class flexibility is more true to life, the prestige classes are way overpowered (what on earth is a paladin or ranger, if not a prestige class? Anybody ever thought of how incredibly unbalancing a mere 1st-level totemic druid would be?), and, much the worse, the rules trivialize the differences between the sentient species, reducing them to nothing but races. What's a halfling that's not a short nimble human? What's a dwarf that's not a short strong stocky human? What's a half-orc that's not a big strong unbrilliant human? What's an elf, that's not just a human with pointy ears and long life? It totally destroys the roleplaying involved. There's a REASON different species don't produce certain classes... paladinhood is based on human concepts, one of which is the fragility and shortness of life.. makes no sense for an elf to be one. Dwarfs don't produce wizards... but they make wonderful magic items. How? Well, humans produce them in military factories or wizards' workshops, but for a dwarf, smithing and manufacturing is literally a religious experience... 3rd ed. destroys all of that. I am sorry But If You would say A Dwarf can never be a Sorcerer IMHO that's rediculous Dwarves can get Chaotic Evil instead of Lawful Good right? Why can't they become sorcerers The DM guide says it's not Normal and it doesn't happen often But it Should be possible after all, the Dwarves who go adventuring are normally outcasts of their Society, And in their society Sorcerers are outcasts [ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: Konfuzed and Zany ] __________________ I Am Flameboy<br />Watch me ehm.. Burn...

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12-07-2001, 09:27 PM	#1
toriuxik Banned Smartass Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Who cares Posts: 216	Is there none of the snazy kits in this game? They made BG2 more interesting. Oh well. I hope I'm wrong but I just doubt it.

12-10-2001, 02:11 PM	#3
toriuxik Banned Smartass Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Who cares Posts: 216	likes 2nd edition more now =(

12-10-2001, 08:17 PM	#4
Worm The Magister Join Date: December 2, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 114	How can you say that? Look firstly you can make killer classes with no race limits. Dwarven palidans, Halfing rangers, and Orcish bards!

12-12-2001, 01:19 PM	#5
toriuxik Banned Smartass Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Who cares Posts: 216	I'd rather not use a halfling for anything but a thief for the obvious reasons, and I would rather use a half orc wizard slayer, or dwarven battlerager than a bard one.

12-13-2001, 01:04 PM	#7
toriuxik Banned Smartass Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Who cares Posts: 216	I agree, having every race able to be anything, the game gets a little messed. I like the idea, but I don't think it makes much sense really, as said above, dwarves aren't much for mages.... It doesn't work well for them. They can, but they are naturally non-magical.... Forging aside of course. Paladins are indeed from the human point of view. An elf isn't as ready to toss away some 500 years of life for the potential to maybe slow down the massive orc invasion... While a human paladin would do so at the drop of a hat (or helm =)

01-24-2002, 10:11 AM	#10
toriuxik Banned Smartass Join Date: November 26, 2001 Location: Who cares Posts: 216	Dwarves don't make good mages because they have mental and biological difficulties with magic, as well as having large, stuby and unnimble fingers not suited for spellcasting intracacies... Also, dwarves that are adventurers aren't even usually outcasts. Some are, but some who daren't are also outcasts. Dwarves don't make a good mage because of this. Just as elves are a part of the magical weave, dwarves are utterly NOT a part (As not as can possibly be).

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