Teaching Students to Fight Back

[VulcanRider]

Teaching kids to fight back against classroom invaders

BURLESON, Texas (AP) -- Youngsters in a suburban Fort Worth, Texas, school district are being taught not to sit there like good boys and girls with their hands folded if a gunman invades the classroom, but to rush him and hit him with everything they've got -- books, pencils, legs and arms. . "Getting under desks and praying for rescue from professionals is not a recipe for success," said Robin Browne, a major in the British Army reserve and an instructor for Response Options, the company providing the training to the Burleson schools. . ..."We show them they can win," [Browne] said. "The fact that someone walks into a classroom with a gun does not make them a god. Five or six seventh-grade kids and a 95-pound art teacher can basically challenge, bring down and immobilize a 200-pound man with a gun...." . ...The fight-back training parallels the change in thinking that has occurred since September 11, 2001, when United Flight 93 made it clear that the usual advice during a hijacking -- Don't try to be a hero, and no one will get hurt -- no longer holds. Flight attendants and passengers are now encouraged to rush the cockpit.... . ...William Lassiter, manager of the North Carolina-based Center for Prevention of School Violence, said past attacks indicate that fighting back, at least by teachers and staff, has its merits. . "At Columbine, teachers told students to get down and get on the floors, and gunmen went around and shot people on the floors," Lassiter said. "I know this sounds chaotic and I know it doesn't sound like a great solution, but it's better than leaving them there to get shot."

Gotta say I like this idea. If the bad guys are convinced the victims won't just meekly submit, they'll think twice about doing the crime in the first place.

[Larry_OHF]

I like the idea, and agree with your post...that knowing that people will defend themselves sometimes deters the crime in the first place. They teach such ideas in the women's defencive classes on how to not play into the scared victim position.

[Harkoliar]

while the idea sounds good, it is also inviting a sure death if unarmed people just suddenly rush with a trigger happy teenager with a sub-machine gun. casualties would be inevitable. Then again, waiting for the police to arrive, there is also that risk. Its just up to you how you weigh upon it.

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. When has a gunman massacred everyone in a class? They kill the targets. Sometimes sitting quietly and waiting for the professionals is a good idea. That's why they're professionals.

Larry, I just wanted to comment on the women's self-defense classes. I must admit that I have mixed feelings on those. I mean, when you take those classes, you're generally in sweatpants, t-shirt, and sneakers, yes? And how often do women walk around like that? It certainly depends on if they're in college or in the business world or whatever, but if you're walking around in heels all your training becomes moot. In addition to this, during a rape, people have this tendency to, you know, freeze up in shock. Later this might lead to even more intense feelings of guilt for the victim.. "Why didn't I fight back? I know I could have taken him. Did I want this?" and so forth.

Finally, to wrap this up, I am of course obligated to mention that most rapists know their victims; there's not as much abandoned parking lot rape going on as people believe. Anyway, I seem to have gotten carried away, so I'll leave you to't.

[Felix The Assassin]

CCW!

[VulcanRider]

Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: CCW!

I think there's a bill in the Wisconsin legislature right now that would let teachers & staff with CCW permits carry in school. They might as well -- the kids are carrying already...

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally posted by VulcanRider: quote: Originally posted by Felix The Assassin: CCW!

I think there's a bill in the Wisconsin legislature right now that would let teachers & staff with CCW permits carry in school. They might as well -- the kids are carrying already... [/QUOTE]Combined Classroom of Whup-that-arse! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[pritchke]

I recently took a self-defense course from a retired cop. Not the normal type of self defense course. But basically not to show weekness as criminals love people who they feel are weak targets, and they sense fear like the dogs they are. Basically you either flee or give them everything you got, and no nice stuff, kick them in the crotch, key, pencil, finger to the eye (the eye-poke is very effective)use anything you can use as a weapon to take them down. They love to feel they are in control so don't give them that. Yes, they could kill you but they could kill you if you do nothing as well. It sort of depends on the situation for example if they have a gun and you are not cornered but not within arms reach than fleeing is most likely the best option, just remember to not run in a straight line. If you can get away than you can phone for help. Fighting back is always an option you can choose not to be a victim and survival is key.

[ 10-16-2006, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Cerek]

I don't completely agree with the children rushing the gunman. That certainly increases the risk for those who choose to become involved. I recommend the teachers receive firearm training and be allowed to carry concealed weapons as a safety measure. Not all teachers will want to participate and that's fine. All the school system has to do is publicize the fact that teachers ARE trained in the use of firearms and several teachers in each school ARE licensed to carry concealed weapons. That adds a much higher level of risk to any potential gunman thinking of going into the school - knowing that there ARE guns and people who know how to use them - but NOT knowing which teachers he has to worry about. There will always be the fear that the teacher with the handgun might come up from the other end of the hallway.

Illumina - There are two points in your response that I must counter. First, just because women may wear sweats or loose clothing to their self-defense classes does NOT mean they will be unable to use what they learn while wearing street or business clothes. You're right that women can't do kicks or run in high heels, but women know this and can kick their high heels off in 2 seconds or less. As for school shooters choosing specific targets, evidence and reports show that was NOT the case at Columbine. There may have been a few specific targets, but many others were just random victims they decided to shoot as they walked through the school. The shooter at the Ammish school in Pennsylvania obviously planned to target the girls, but if the boys and girls had rushed him when he first came in, I believe that NONE of them would have been killed. The shooter didn't start killing his victims until he had complete control of the situation. Even if he had started shooting, chances are he wouldn't have hit all his targets (because he is firing without aiming) and the death toll would have been much lower. Yes, there is still the increased risk to those that choose to rush the gunman, but sometimes the loss of 1 or 2 (especially if done willingly) is better than the loss of many.

As a side note, I have to say I was deeply impressed with the reaction of the Ammish community - especially the parents of the girls that were killed. They mourned their loss but also forgave the gunman. They showed that they truly do LIVE by the religious values they exhibit at ALL times - not just when it is easy or convenient. ALL Christians would do well to learn from their example.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Cerek: As a side note, I have to say I was deeply impressed with the reaction of the Ammish community - especially the parents of the girls that were killed. They mourned their loss but also forgave the gunman. They showed that they truly do LIVE by the religious values they exhibit at ALL times - not just when it is easy or convenient. ALL Christians would do well to learn from their example.

Yes I am *impressed* that a village can basically lose an entire generation of women and forgive the killer. I'm not *respectful* of that level of forgiveness, nor do I *understand* it, but yes it is impressive.