Smoking Ban

[Timber Loftis]

I'm NOT misrepresenting what you said, and Lord K sums it up well. Your mates smoke in the bar, which is where they apparently want to smoke (else they would go outside), and they are obliging enough to not blow it your way (I show everyone that courtesy when I smoke). But, you wish the government would make a law, limiting their freedom, thereby benefitting you when you are in their company.

Maybe many smokers would like to give it up. But, each of us defines our own happiness, and it is not your place to legislate us into acheiving our desires. Me, I've no desire to give it up. I quite cold for 2-3 years. Now, I've busted the addiction barrier and can smoke when I choose. It's kinda nice.

Which brings me to another point -- our notion of what "smoking" is. It should, IMO, be viewed as an occassional recreational thing -- like alcohol. Doing any drug 20 times every day is abject stupidity. All things in moderation.

Oh, and I am wounded and hurt we are not friends. While it may be true, I would not have said it outright. I thought you true Englishmen were supposed to have more manners than us colonials. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by LordKathen: TL, you are my idol! Well said bro. And now for something completly diferent: Smokers have been pushed aside for years further and further away from society. We havn't bitched too much so far, but this is rediculous. A bar? Give me a break! Go somewhere else if you dont like the smoke. Like maybe your own bar, where there is no smoking aloud. Lets see how long your bar lasts by the way. I am fuming over this whole frikin debate! How much more freedom are we going to loose to these peope? We can not let it continue. Sooner or later, all this type liberalism is going to impede into the lifes of the ones who started the ruckis. Then what, we start writing a new constitution? Start the whole damn thing over again? Leave me and my rights alone and go somewhere else!!!

Whereas I support your notion of allowing smoking on bars I can't help to disagree with the rest. You've been pushed aside from society? I know several companies now ask if you are a smoker or not when hiring. I doubt it has so much to do with smoking as with saving money. As for smoking in public places, not bars , I think a ban is a good thing. If I would catch you smoking within a 100 yards of my hospital you wouldn´t be standing there for long.

That said I also feel that the majority of smokers that DO show respect get penalized from the minority who simple doesn't care. Most smokers I have met have kindly put out their cigarettes when asked to do so. [img]smile.gif[/img] More understanding than people with other "issues".

But smoking in public places, once again not bars, does somewhat limit the choice "go somewhere else if you don't like the smoke".

Also to those who compares fumes with cigarette smoke. This is not really a valid comparison. The amounts of toxic substances found in cigarettes is generally filtered out in industries. A company releasing heavy metals into the nature would probably have a hefty fine to look forward to. Think about that when throwing away your buds, or washing your car for that matter. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edti: Had to remove your smileys LordK.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: true, I would not have said it outright. I thought you true Englishmen were supposed to have more manners than us colonials. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Oh TL - I had no idea you were so easily hurt. You've been watching too many Hugh Grant films.

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by LordKathen: TL, you are my idol! Well said bro. And now for something completly diferent: Smokers have been pushed aside for years further and further away from society. We havn't bitched too much so far, but this is rediculous. A bar? Give me a break! Go somewhere else if you dont like the smoke. Like maybe your own bar, where there is no smoking aloud. Lets see how long your bar lasts by the way. I am fuming over this whole frikin debate! How much more freedom are we going to loose to these peope? We can not let it continue. Sooner or later, all this type liberalism is going to impede into the lifes of the ones who started the ruckis. Then what, we start writing a new constitution? Start the whole damn thing over again? Leave me and my rights alone and go somewhere else!!!

Whereas I support your notion of allowing smoking on bars I can't help to disagree with the rest. You've been pushed aside from society? I know several companies now ask if you are a smoker or not when hiring. I doubt it has so much to do with smoking as with saving money. As for smoking in public places, not bars , I think a ban is a good thing. If I would catch you smoking within a 100 yards of my hospital you wouldn´t be standing there for long.

That said I also feel that the majority of smokers that DO show respect get penalized from the minority who simple doesn't care. Most smokers I have met have kindly put out their cigarettes when asked to do so. [img]smile.gif[/img] More understanding than people with other "issues".

But smoking in public places, once again not bars, does somewhat limit the choice "go somewhere else if you don't like the smoke".

Also to those who compares fumes with cigarette smoke. This is not really a valid comparison. The amounts of toxic substances found in cigarettes is generally filtered out in industries. A company releasing heavy metals into the nature would probably have a hefty fine to look forward to. Think about that when throwing away your buds, or washing your car for that matter. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Edti: Had to remove your smileys LordK. What? Why? What are you talking about? [/QUOTE]

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by WillowIX: Also to those who compares fumes with cigarette smoke. This is not really a valid comparison. The amounts of toxic substances found in cigarettes is generally filtered out in industries. A company releasing heavy metals into the nature would probably have a hefty fine to look forward to. Think about that when throwing away your buds, or washing your car for that matter. [img]smile.gif[/img]

HMmmm.... While I generally agree with about everything you've said on this topic, Willow, this bit is not true. When I talked about emissions from ethanol plants, I was talking real amounts spewed into the air at the end of the stack after all scrubbers, cyclones, etc. Acher Daniels Midland just settled for EPA's largest ever fine, based on emissions from 56 ethanol plants in 16 states. With each one churning 10tpy of formaldehyde or other HAPs into the air, it is a fair comparrison. The air migrates, and the formaldehyde spewed over there will get to you just as sure as the HAPs you see coming at you in a line of blue smoke from the smoker at the next table.

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by LordKathen: What? Why? What are you talking about?

[/QB][/QUOTE]I quoted your post from page 6. It contains 3 smileys whereas my quote of your post only contains 1. There's a smiley limit of 8 per post. [img]smile.gif[/img] And I frequently exceed it.

Timber and Donut, perhaps you should continue your "squabble" in PMs? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[LordKathen]

Originally posted by WillowIX: quote: Originally posted by LordKathen: What? Why? What are you talking about?

[/QUOTE]I quoted your post from page 6. It contains 3 smileys whereas my quote of your post only contains 1. There's a smiley limit of 8 per post. [img]smile.gif[/img] And I frequently exceed it.

Timber and Donut, perhaps you should continue your "squabble" in PMs? [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QB][/QUOTE]

Got it.
I am involed in the scable also Willow. Should I PM to?

[ 05-12-2003, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: LordKathen ]

[Thorfinn]

Go, Timber. You tell 'em.

Willow, he is right about being pushed from society. True, companies can ask about smoking, not that it makes any difference in terms of group health rates, at least here in the states. But you think it is OK to deny him a job because he might cost the health plan more? You just try doing that to a woman, who will rack up more in a single, non-complicated birth than he will through his entire career. Try hiring only persons in a committed heterosexual relationship, since they have lower risk factors than other demographics for scads of expensive conditions.

Surely, smoking is treated differently. It is acceptable to shun and vilify smokers, but we must show compassion and understanding (and shell out large sums from our paychecks) in support of addicts to illegal drugs.

[ 05-12-2003, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

[WillowIX]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: HMmmm.... While I generally agree with about everything you've said on this topic, Willow, this bit is not true. When I talked about emissions from ethanol plants, I was talking real amounts spewed into the air at the end of the stack after all scrubbers, cyclones, etc. Acher Daniels Midland just settled for EPA's largest ever fine, based on emissions from 56 ethanol plants in 16 states. With each one churning 10tpy of formaldehyde or other HAPs into the air, it is a fair comparrison. The air migrates, and the formaldehyde spewed over there will get to you just as sure as the HAPs you see coming at you in a line of blue smoke from the smoker at the next table.

No no I agree with the above. But let's compare with a cigarette. Benzene isn't very good for you, neither is benzoate plus another 100 or 200 toxic substances. So if we are to compare industrial emissions with cigarette smoke, I take it I can sue every smoker for releasing God knows how much waste into the air then.

[Sigmar]

[quote]Originally posted by WillowIX:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [qb] I take it I can sue every smoker for releasing God knows how much waste into the air then.

Y'know someone actually tried that, it didn't work. Something about it being ridciulous

*Slips back into obscurity*

[ 05-12-2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Sigmar ]