What killed the kensai?

Memnoch · 08-29-2001, 08:29 AM

Two words: Critical Strike. With it, your high-level fighter is as good as a kensai using kai, except that he can wear armor too. The kensai's become an obsolete class. At high levels your THAC0 will be so good that you will likely automatically hit anything with AC -10 or worse so the kensai's to-hit and damage bonuses are irrelevant.

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Epona · 08-29-2001, 11:13 AM

Kensai is better at lower levels, but I think you're right, the fighter comes out on top in the long run.
The extra THAC0 bonus is good in the early stages of the game, but even so IMHO that never balanced out the fact that you couldn't use armour or ranged weapons.

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Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.

Epona of The Laughing Hyenas

Avatar · 08-29-2001, 11:19 AM

Can Kensai wear the fabulous Mage Apprenti Robe? It gives AC3 and my Monk can wear it.

jabidas · 08-29-2001, 07:25 PM

Its a pity about the Kensai because I loved them I really did.

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Encard · 08-29-2001, 09:46 PM

Can't Kensais use the Big Metal Unit? Bwahahahaha... I know monks can, but if Kensais can too, then they have no weaknesses anymore... I think... other than those of a normal fighter.

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Bow down to the Weasels of Apocalypse! RaBid Fruit Trees! RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Miniature Exploding Demonic Demons of Doom, Death and Desruction!
:1drgat1:

homsuplee · 08-30-2001, 02:52 PM

But so many enemies have 'undroppable helmet with no animation' that critical strike does not work effectively. However Kai works through this. The AC penalty is a problem throughout their careers though. Kai and Whirlwind, however, is a beautiful thing to behold.

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Death comes for you, FEEL IT'S ICY TOUCH

08-30-2001, 03:06 PM

What drives me mad is the ability cap at level 20, no better saveing throws or anything. A fighters thaco should end up a -10 but NO, the spell progreesion table isnt even proper, at level 28 a mages should have 6 of each spell, but at level 31 they only have 5. THe expansion pack does make wizard slayers quite good tho as they end up with very high magic resistence.

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Where ever the journey will take us all
Be sure that our nature will reign

ScottG · 08-31-2001, 05:17 PM

Ahhhh, but you can't use critical strike w/ greater whirlwind can you... But the Kensai can use his kai + greater whirlwind (which is def. an advantage).

08-31-2001, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScottG:
Ahhhh, but you can't use critical strike w/ greater whirlwind can you... But the Kensai can use his kai + greater whirlwind (which is def. an advantage).

You can if you have a Fighter/Mage (such as Lord Raptor - F/M/T) and use Alacrity frst - 10 Crits inthe next round

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In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is pimp.
Lord Raptor's Site

ScottG · 09-01-2001, 02:11 AM

Not quite the same thing though.

You could also use the am. of speed/improved cloak of prot./ring of gaxx w/ improved haste that will last longer (multiple rounds) and give about 9 hits a round w/out any whirlwind (or even needing to be a mage).

Senior Shield, as a curiosity - when were you getting High level special abilities? I noticed that with a fighter/theif multiclass they were starting at about 3 mil exp. points regardless of level (w/ a new ability each time you leveled up for each class). This seems to give more special abilities (I think up to 8 mil it was about 22, which I believe is more than either class alone). (Just wondering if a 3way multiclass gives even more?)

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08-29-2001, 08:29 AM	#1
Memnoch Ironworks Moderator Join Date: February 28, 2001 Location: Boston/Sydney Posts: 11,771	Two words: Critical Strike. With it, your high-level fighter is as good as a kensai using kai, except that he can wear armor too. The kensai's become an obsolete class. At high levels your THAC0 will be so good that you will likely automatically hit anything with AC -10 or worse so the kensai's to-hit and damage bonuses are irrelevant. ------------------

08-29-2001, 11:13 AM	#2
Epona Zartan Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: London, England Age: 53 Posts: 5,164	Kensai is better at lower levels, but I think you're right, the fighter comes out on top in the long run. The extra THAC0 bonus is good in the early stages of the game, but even so IMHO that never balanced out the fact that you couldn't use armour or ranged weapons. ------------------ Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so. Epona of The Laughing Hyenas

08-29-2001, 11:19 AM	#3
Avatar Vampire Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: Cambridge Age: 41 Posts: 3,877	Can Kensai wear the fabulous Mage Apprenti Robe? It gives AC3 and my Monk can wear it.

08-29-2001, 07:25 PM	#4
jabidas Silver Dragon Join Date: March 14, 2001 Location: Agharti. Mountains of Madness Posts: 1,673	Its a pity about the Kensai because I loved them I really did. ------------------

08-29-2001, 09:46 PM	#5
Encard Quintesson Join Date: June 13, 2001 Location: Darkness Age: 37 Posts: 1,033	Can't Kensais use the Big Metal Unit? Bwahahahaha... I know monks can, but if Kensais can too, then they have no weaknesses anymore... I think... other than those of a normal fighter. ------------------ Bow down to the Weasels of Apocalypse! RaBid Fruit Trees! RRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!! Miniature Exploding Demonic Demons of Doom, Death and Desruction! :1drgat1:

08-30-2001, 02:52 PM	#6
homsuplee Dungeon Master Join Date: June 10, 2001 Location: Fortress of Regrets Posts: 97	But so many enemies have 'undroppable helmet with no animation' that critical strike does not work effectively. However Kai works through this. The AC penalty is a problem throughout their careers though. Kai and Whirlwind, however, is a beautiful thing to behold. ------------------ Death comes for you, FEEL IT'S ICY TOUCH

08-30-2001, 03:06 PM	#7
Dramnek_Ulk Guest Posts: n/a	What drives me mad is the ability cap at level 20, no better saveing throws or anything. A fighters thaco should end up a -10 but NO, the spell progreesion table isnt even proper, at level 28 a mages should have 6 of each spell, but at level 31 they only have 5. THe expansion pack does make wizard slayers quite good tho as they end up with very high magic resistence. ------------------ Where ever the journey will take us all Be sure that our nature will reign

08-31-2001, 05:17 PM	#8
ScottG Drow Warrior Join Date: June 13, 2003 Location: Never Never Land Age: 54 Posts: 267	Ahhhh, but you can't use critical strike w/ greater whirlwind can you... But the Kensai can use his kai + greater whirlwind (which is def. an advantage).

09-01-2001, 02:11 AM	#10
ScottG Drow Warrior Join Date: June 13, 2003 Location: Never Never Land Age: 54 Posts: 267	Not quite the same thing though. You could also use the am. of speed/improved cloak of prot./ring of gaxx w/ improved haste that will last longer (multiple rounds) and give about 9 hits a round w/out any whirlwind (or even needing to be a mage). Senior Shield, as a curiosity - when were you getting High level special abilities? I noticed that with a fighter/theif multiclass they were starting at about 3 mil exp. points regardless of level (w/ a new ability each time you leveled up for each class). This seems to give more special abilities (I think up to 8 mil it was about 22, which I believe is more than either class alone). (Just wondering if a 3way multiclass gives even more?)

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