Local problem (Muslims vs. local police)

[Larry_OHF]

I wanted to get the news out about a local problem taking place. I cannot find a link to a written news report, or if I did, it would probably be a biased opinionated article. Therefore, let it suffice for now that I tell you what I know of the issue.

An Egyptian-American woman, reported to be around the age of 68, has been in the US for 12 years, living in Greensboro, NC. She was shopping at a Wal-mart when something occurred to get her upset. Reportedly from her son, she had left her money purse somewhere and it had been stolen. From the check-out clerk's view...the woman just did not have any money to buy the products she had in line with her. He would not have known anything about a stolen purse at the time, because she does not know how to speak English. So here is a woman who begins yelling about something, but nobody can understand her. Her son was not there at the time, BTW. So the only thing to do is call the police in, because she is starting to scare people with her wailing. When the police come, they try to talk to her, not knowing she knows not what they are saying. Well...the police cannot get an interpreter there in the next few moments and the only rational thing to do was to remove her from the line so that business can continue in the store, and set her aside to await an interpreter. She takes to this like a cat takes to taking a bath. She begins to fight the police, who then have to subdue her with force because she is fighting them. In the act of arresting this unruly person because they have no idea what pissed her off to begin with, she suffered a mild heart attack, brusies from the hand cuffs because she was struggling against them, and her shoulder was broken or dislocated. She had to go to the hospital for it.

Now...this lady wants an apology in Arabic AND French, and wants Greensboro police to pay for her hospital bill. The police have refused this pending an investigation into whether or not the men used unnecessary force or if she brought about her own injuries by fighting so violently. The decision will be decided once investigators review Wal-mart's security tape that recorded the whole ordeal, supposedly (reportedly).

In defence of the police, the woman is guilty of not being able to communicate her problem to anyone, and if she would have been able to communicate her problem she would not have had to suffer any hospital visit. It is sad to think that anyone would want to attempt to live in a foreign land and not know how to say basic things.

In defence of the woman, I think the police probably scared her and with the current prejudices in the land these days, she probably did not understand that the police were there to maintain order, and help her who was reportedly a victim of a crime. They should have guessed that if she did not speak English to understand why they were there, then she would have become very scared at their presence, seeing as what it would mean in her own land when the authorities show up to deal with a woman. In her own land, she would have been shot on sight, I am guessing.

Any comments? Oh, and I will keep you posted on how it turns out with the video footage if I can catch up with it.

[Barry the Sprout]

Arresting a 68 year old woman they broke or dislocated her shoulder and gave her a mild heart attack?!? How can that be seen as anything other than unnecessary force? You phrase the whole thing as if the police were totally justified in beating the crap out of this woman just because she couldn't understand what was going on. And the ultimate transgression on her part is having the temerity for asking for an apology in... shock horror... French! What a troublesome old bat...

[Timber Loftis]

Not enough facts on the "unneccessary roughness" call. Need to go to slow mo. As several government bureauons (that's a bureaucrat/moron bastard breed that exists in government's around the globe, for those of you just now tuning it) I'm sure will do -- because any compliant filed against a police officer is investigated, and stays in their record regardless of the outcome. As well, she can file suit if she likes.

68 is not ancient, but if she's in poor health, she could very easily dislocate a shoulder and suffor minor heart attack, without the police being too rough.

Just sounds like a panic attack gone horribly wrong to me.

[johnny]

Smells like a bunch a loose cannons there. So the lady resisted... big deal... couldn't they find another way to settle this problem ? Any lawyer worth his salt should see to it that the ones responsible for this never get to wear a uniform ever again.

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Barry the Sprout: How can that be seen as anything other than unnecessary force?

Because I have not yet read any witness reports (If there are any) nor have I heard about anyone ready to release the taped evidence...so in a matter of fact it has not yet been "seen" by me. Since I was not there, and not enough time has passed for the truth to be judged, I am blind to the whole thing except for what excerpts the media leak out to me. When I have a chance to see the video footage on the TV I will come back and tell you what I see. Until then, it would only be speculation, and that does not amount to much worth, since I am not a specialist on legal matters.

What I do know at this time is that the media is leaning toward the woman's side of this because it makes better news to side with the apparent victim of any cop-related case, whether or not the side-choosing is a valid one.

By the way, this just in as of today. If Greensboro police do not meet the requests of the family, the entire muslim community will do what they call a "Prayer-in". I have heard two possible locations for this. The same Wal-mart or the county court house.

[Larry_OHF]

I found something.

Greensboro Muslim leaders demand apology after woman's arrest The Associated Press GREENSBORO, N.C. -- Local Muslim leaders have demanded an apology for an Egyptian-American woman who suffered a broken shoulder and a mild heart attack when she was arrested at a Wal-Mart. Afaf Saudi, 68, a naturalized U.S. citizen who has lived in America for 12 years, was charged over the weekend with resisting police officers and assaulting a store employee. She suffered a broken shoulder and rib, a mild heart attack and cuts and bruises on her wrists, the News & Record of Greensboro reported Monday. She was in Moses Cone Hospital on Sunday awaiting surgery. A hospital spokesman couldn't immediately give a condition update Monday. Wajeh Muhammad, treasurer of the Islamic Center of the Triad, wants the city to pay for her medical bills and the officer responsible to issue an apology. "We're not going to let something like this go away," he said. "This is not what the Greensboro Police Department stands for." Guilford County's Muslim community was estimated at 3,600 in 2002. Initial reports show the officer did nothing improper, said Sgt. J.P. Gunn, a department spokesman. He said the department will investigate, as in all cases in which suspects are injured. The officer, R.R. Neal Jr., remains assigned to his regular duties, Gunn said. The arrest comes during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Saudi was in the checkout line at Wal-Mart on Saturday afternoon when, police say, she became irate and refused store employees' request that she leave. The arrest report said she kicked an assistant manager in the chest. Gunn said Saudi also resisted Neal's attempt to remove her from the floor. "She was dead weight," he said. "She fell on the floor." Saudi was charged with resisting police officers, assaulting an employee and refusing to leave the store. Her court hearing is set for 8:30 a.m. on Dec. 6. Saudi's son, Sam Helmi of Greensboro, said his mother told him she was shopping when she forgot where she left her shopping cart and pocketbook. She eventually found them and headed for the checkout line, then discovered $150 missing from her purse, Helmi said. She told Helmi she was embarrassed and confused - unable to pay her bill or even tell the clerk why she was upset. She alleges that people began laughing, which upset her more. Saudi said she fell when the officer tried to remove her from the store. They dragged her to the police cruiser, injuring her handcuffed wrists, she told family members. "I'm not the person to shout and do crazy things," said Helmi, who has lived in the region for 24 years. "But I am burning inside." --- Information from: News & Record, http://www.news-record.com

After reading this, I see why the police were called in. The woman got so mad at everyone telling her to move on that she lost her temper and kicked a man. The police came to capture a woman who was already in the mood to fight, and her resisitance added to the trouble.

But the question remains as to whether or not the policemen used unnecessary force to subdue her...which I am eagerly awaiting to learn from that video footage.

By the way...How the hell did a 68 year-old woman kick a man in the chest? She must be more wirey than my grandmother was at that age!

[johnny]

heheh... Kung Fu Granny strikes again.

[shamrock_uk]

I think this is pretty outrageous personally. The members of the police force do a thankless job to benefit society and should therefore get the benefit of the doubt initially. They wouldn't have been called to the scene unless there was something going wrong.

The calls from the Muslim community strike me as being completely unreasonable on the evidence Larry provides in that article, and run the risk of them playing the 'victimised minority' card once too often.

[Larry_OHF]

This news just in. I heard on the 11pm news just now that police investigation into this case has proven the police that made the arrest are "not" guilty of doing anything outside their lawful/legal/ethical/moral restrictions.

Therefore, they will not be apologizing, and the muslim community leaders have decided to back down and back off, as they see that there is no case to persue.

Now the woman will be facing criminal charges of assault.

[Kaelas]

Really now, how can one live in a country for 12 years and not know the commonly spoken language!?
Just basic language knowledge could probably have defused this situation.

Well, I know how it works... I've got enough examples in my own neighborhood. And he lives here for 30 years and still refuses to learn to communicate with anyone other than those who speak his native tongue.