Skill gain

[Dancing Virginia]

Originally posted by jmsteven: What's a swingout and why does it cost $160?

I am a rabid swing dancer in Washington D.C. A swingout is one of the first moves you learn when taking swing lessons. It is also one of the hardest things to master. It feels like a million bucks when you are dancing with a partner and your swingouts just "click". Mine used to suck until I took four private lessons with my friend/swing-god, Jeff. $40 an hour for four hours equals $160. And worth every penny.

[Calagari]

I know I live a sheltered life. But I still am not sure I understand what swing dancing is. Is it also called jitterbug dancing? That is the only term I could think of for fast dancing. I remember seeing a film that took place in Germany during the 60's about a resurgency in Swing dancing. If I remember correctly the movie was called The swing Kids.

Originally posted by Dancing Virginia: quote: Originally posted by jmsteven: What's a swingout and why does it cost $160?

I am a rabid swing dancer in Washington D.C. A swingout is one of the first moves you learn when taking swing lessons. It is also one of the hardest things to master. It feels like a million bucks when you are dancing with a partner and your swingouts just "click". Mine used to suck until I took four private lessons with my friend/swing-god, Jeff. $40 an hour for four hours equals $160. And worth every penny. [/QUOTE]

[Soothsayer]

Hmmmm, Having just completed IWD without how or totlm installed, I plan to buy how and restart the entire game from the start of iwd. I would like to keep wome of my current characters but im not too sure what to do.

Im going to keep my mage/cleric.

As for the other 3 people in my party:

I have a pure fighter who im tempted to throw away, although he can dual-class to a theif.

I have a ranger who I would like to keep, seeng as he got about 300 more kills than my fighter, and has a better armour class and has more HP and is a level lower.

I have a pure theif who I dont want to keep, but hes level 16 and I know ill need a theif if I want to go through IWD and HOW.

hmmmm
the fighter/theif is the only dual-class i can do but my fighter is level 13 so i wont get him back until the end of the game. Plus the XP experience cap is going to be a problem.

You guys seem to know loads about making parties, what should I do?

[jmsteven]

If you import your 13th - 16th level characters, the game will be too easy and no fun at all. Start with a new 1st level party.

[Dancing Virginia]

Yep, same thing. Except it was set in the 1940s, during WWII. Swing (also known as jitterbug or lindy hop) was invented in the early 40s in Harlem. German kids took to it to protest Nazism. If you have more questions, I can take them offline. Even though I argue that this would definitely come under the topic of "skill gain". j/k :-D

Originally posted by Calagari: I know I live a sheltered life. But I still am not sure I understand what swing dancing is. Is it also called jitterbug dancing? That is the only term I could think of for fast dancing. I remember seeing a film that took place in Germany during the 60's about a resurgency in Swing dancing. If I remember correctly the movie was called The swing Kids.

[ 10-27-2004, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Dancing Virginia ]

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by Soothsayer: ...just completed IWD without how ... plan to buy how and restart the entire game from the start of iwd. I would like to keep ... my mage/cleric. ...pure fighter who im tempted to throw away... a ranger who I would like to keep, ... pure theif who I dont want to keep, ... the fighter/theif is the only dual-class i can do but my fighter is level 13 ... Plus the XP experience cap is going to be a problem.

Soothsayer,

jmsteven is right about the high level characters: might make the game easy enough for good gamers to get bored. (Glad that doesn't include me.) Taking one high level character, though, shouldn't hurt.

There is essentially no XP cap with HoW installed. Levels are capped at 30 per class (so 30/30 for DC and 30/30/30 is possible for an MC.) Doing IWD/HoW/TotLM should get you in the neighborhood of 20 for SC and 16/16 for DC or MC, in a 6 member party (depending on class and how you play).

My party suggestion, built to include your Mage/Cleric, is below. Again, this is for a party doing IWD and HoW and possibly TotLM, on normal difficulty. It differs a bit from the party I would take; mostly because I choose to DC at higher levels than most would, and I thought you would like a little more variety. The short story is that I don't like to MC Fighters, LOVE to DC Fighters, like physical parties, have found the Bard excellent for turbo charging physical parties, and have also found Cleric power to greatly ease the pain inflicted on the party in the expansions. Any one of the first 4 characters can tank; though I would typically rely on the Paladin, backed by the F[12]/C.

4.) Paladin (**LongSword, **LongBow)
1.) DC Fighter[12]/Cleric (*****Mace, ***Sling)
2.) DC Fighter[9]/Druid (****Scimitar, ***Sling)
3.) DC Fighter[9]/Thief (****LongSword, ***LongBow)
5.) MC Mage/Cleric (whatever you've already got)
6.) Bard (*whatever, *whatever: Doesn't matter; she rarely uses weapons)

If you want more detailed rationale for my suggestions, as well as alternate party builds, see the threads, below. (There is lots of good discussion with Aerich in some of these threads.)

Thread that Calagari started: Skill gain.

Thread that Dancing Virginia started: My party -- FINALLY.

Thread that Aerich started A slightly intellectual exercise.

Thread that Gimli started: Party Help.

Thread that Feagil of the shadow started: a party combination.

Someone in the party (likely the Pally) needs CHA=18 in order to get good dialogue options and good prices at merchants.

You need to plan DC characters carefully (fun!) and roll them carefully (more fun!). For all except the F/D, the formula is STR=DEX=CON=18 for all DC Fighters; plus INT=18 for DC to Mage (but you don't have one) and WIS=18 for DC to Cleric. Roll totals in the low to mid 80s should do it. See threads above if you want more help on the topic.

Now, on to the DC Fighter/Druid: A good DC Fighter/Druid takes a little patience to roll. Take a look at the following thread (especially the posts toward the end) to see if it is something you would like to undertake.

Thread that Noble Nick started: Druid Questions (Weapons and Spells).

The Pally will lead (and tank for) a beefy cast of Fighters. (Note that I recomend the Pally only if you specialize him in LongSword.) This line-up should make any group of Trolls shake in their boots.

Since you have an MC Cleric, the F[12]/C could even be held till F[13], if you wanted, to gain the extra 0.5 ApR and natural resistances. This is a stretch on the patience, since it significantly delays the completion of your F/C; but you will still get 1/4 to 1/3 of the overall game with him in the full F/C state (and he will be a joy to have!).

The Bard's main purpose is to sing War Chant non-stop, so as to put armor plating on this killing machine, and heal them up for the next round. (This means EVERY party member is ALWAYS at 100% HP entering EVERY battle, and frees up the Clerics' many spell slots for buffing, curative and offensive spells, rather than straight healing. It also means your party never sleeps, except to regain spells or when fatigued.) The Bard's magic skills should close in on the Mage/Cleric, and possibly even surpass it in places towards the end of the game. The Bard's AC can be bolstered with Stone Skin, Blur (spell or item) and Mirror Image.

Roboghost had a GREAT idea for the Bard: since she should only very rarely use a weapon, give her one that has magical properties to augment her AC.

Your Mage/Cleric is the party's support character and strong point in the party's offensive magic (at least initially) With this character's spell set, you should be able to muddle through IWD until your Fighter[9] DCs to Thief. This character also gives you the luxury of holding your DC F/C til he has attained a high Fighter level. However, your M/C will be the weak link in the party's armor by the time you hit the expansions; so you'll have to protect him/her.

Hope this helps.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 10-28-2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[jmsteven]

Regarding Nick's assertion that "Someone in the party (likely the Pally) needs CHA=18 in order to get good dialogue options and good prices at merchants":

SPOILER:

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You really only need the protagonist to have a CHA=14 to get all the advantaged dialogue options in the game. A Bard or Druid would serve just as well as the party's dialogue character. You do get a store discount for having high CHA, but a Bard can cast "Friends" spell, and do just as well, if not better, than the Pally. On the other hand, the Pally has several unique dialogue options specific to that class, some of which yield the party extra experience.