Serious topic for Fathers...Mothers may be offended...

[bilqis]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: You may be right. The older she gets, the better she acts, and the less crying she does. Nobody on here can blame me for hoping that she grows up really quick.

LOLOLOL! I know I don't blame you for hoping she grows older quickly! I enjoyed them being babies til they were about ... ohhh ... 2 weeks old? I was ready for conversation & cuteness long before they were able to provide that. That doesn't mean I didn't love them tremendously and I did care for them very well --- but I felt like they were a hell of a lot of work til they were about 18 months, when they discovered words. (Now you all probably think I was a bad mother ... but I'm just being honest about my feelings. My behavior was just fine. )

But as I've said many times before, my favorite quote on babies comes from Bill Cosby. "Babies are false advertising" That is true in ALL ways.. so cute you think you want one, and decide to have one, not suspecting that it's a lifelong committment like no other. And they are so dependent and exhausting as infants --- but things DO get better!! They DO grow up.

Originally posted by Moni: Try to understand she is a new little person and know that time will fly...seriously, you are going to turn around "tomorrow" and she'll be an adult

AMEN Moni! My sons are ages 19, 17, 14, 11 -- and when I look at them, especially those that are young MEN, I can not reconcile the images in my memory of those sweet cuddly little babies with these big lunks who are currently eating me out of house & home!

Looking forward the time feels like forever. Looking back you wonder how you got here so quickly.

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Having abandoned my
search for truth, I am
now looking for a good
fantasy.

For R³ in thanks:
Sometimes I think I
understand everything,
then I regain consciousness.


[This message has been edited by bilqis (edited 08-17-2001).]

[Larry_OHF]

I told my wife about posting this last night, and she wanted me to add her comment that she has been extremely irritated at the baby recently for crying as well. Marybeth will cry because she cannot yet climb onto the couch. She will whine just because she would rather be carried than crawl. Etc.
Karen tells me that she has got to the point that whatever little whine comes out of the baby that is unjustified, she wants to just scream, herself. As she was telling me this, I could see the truth in her eyes that she is not enjoying her days with a 13 month old. Do any of you mothers ever feel like this, or is this an isolated feeling that Karen suffers, alone?


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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

[Lifetime]

I'm not really old enough to really know what you're going through Larry, but to me IMHO you should stop waiting till she's older.
Stop waiting till this happens or that occurs..first you'll wait till she's big enough to walk with you, then you'll wait till she's a teen, and I can imagine before you know it she'll be old enough to go to college and move away from home.
There's no end to waiting for a person to grow, so I feel that loving a child as she is and not what she will be is important. You never know what she'll be in the future, but you do know what she is now, so love your kid as what she is right now, rather than what you want or hope she'll be later.
/Rant Off

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Why?

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Lifetime: I'm not really old enough to really know what you're going through Larry, but to me IMHO you should stop waiting till she's older. Stop waiting till this happens or that occurs..first you'll wait till she's big enough to walk with you, then you'll wait till she's a teen, and I can imagine before you know it she'll be old enough to go to college and move away from home. There's no end to waiting for a person to grow, so I feel that loving a child as she is and not what she will be is important. You never know what she'll be in the future, but you do know what she is now, so love your kid as what she is right now, rather than what you want or hope she'll be later. /Rant Off

I appreciate that comment. You have a good point.
I think my whole reason for this topic is to point out that:
#1 ) A man's love for his child cannot compare to a woman's, yet most women expect us to.
#2 ) Love for a child (in a man's sense) has to grow, and is usually not automatic.
#3 ) As stated earlier, although a woman says that she love unconditionally, the crying and whining that a child produces does curve that love temporarilly, as seen with my wife.

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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

[This message has been edited by Larry_OHF (edited 08-17-2001).]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: I told my wife about posting this last night, and she wanted me to add her comment that she has been extremely irritated at the baby recently for crying as well. Marybeth will cry because she cannot yet climb onto the couch. She will whine just because she would rather be carried than crawl. Etc. Karen tells me that she has got to the point that whatever little whine comes out of the baby that is unjustified, she wants to just scream, herself. As she was telling me this, I could see the truth in her eyes that she is not enjoying her days with a 13 month old. Do any of you mothers ever feel like this, or is this an isolated feeling that Karen suffers, alone?

I was blessed with one of those unusual babies that only cried when he was wet or hungry.
They're all different and I would bet when she learns to talk, you'll find out a lot more, the reasons why she whines.
Sounds to me like its just frustration.


Bilqis,
My son is going on 21. I remember the day I had him like it was just yesterday and the years in between as well. He called me two days ago and we sat and talked for two hours on the phone. It was the best day I have had in a long time after worrying about him moving across the country and all. He has a really good head on his shoulders.



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Pets Need Love Too

[Larry_OHF]

...Sounds to me like its just frustration.

Yeah. She gets very frustrated. Karen is afraid that she has inherited my temper.
I have a three year old nephew that does the Temper tantrum things, where he throws himsel onto the ground when he didn't get what he wanted, and screamed like he had been shot. His mom just let him do it. It stopped the day that she tol him to stop jumping on the couch, and since she was rebuking hijm, and he did not like it, he threw himself off of the couch in anger(stupid kid) and broke his arm. Now, they help him understand not to throw tantrums



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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

I understand exactly what you mean.

I think women are better equipped to deal with very young infants, emotionally. Women start with a much stronger emotional bond with the newborn, having carried it around inside of them for 9 months, feeling it grow and kick, etc.

I fully confess that it wasn't until my daughter started reaching the more interactive stage that I started really enjoying being a father. The helpless infant stage where all they do is lie there, cry, and poop their diapers is hardly the stuff dreams are made of, for me anyway

I dont think there is anything unusual about this at all. Women seem to, in general, get more satisfaction out of caring for a totally helpless infant than men do. Speaking for myself, I was starting to wonder if it was all a terrible mistake initially. Our firstborn (a daughter) was colicky. She would scream nonstop for hours on end, which no amount of consoling could quiet. From one point of few, the first 6 months of that was quite hellish. I think the worst part of all was not knowing how long that sort of thing would last. I remember wondering if I had doomed myself to a lifetime of misery.

However, once she began to develop more to the point where she began to be more aware of the world around her, to speak, crawl, walk, and in general just became more interactive with us and her surroundings, then it all started to improve. Then I discovered the incredible rewards that parenthood can hold.

There is nothing on this earth like the love in my daughter's eyes when I come home from work and she runs to the door to greet me with "daddy's home!" and a big hug. She is now 3 and one half years old, and is one of my greatest joys on this earth.

So, hang in there buddy. Just remember that this is a temporary stage and it WILL get better

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: I understand exactly what you mean. I think women are better equipped to deal with very young infants, emotionally. Women start with a much stronger emotional bond with the newborn, having carried it around inside of them for 9 months, feeling it grow and kick, etc. I fully confess that it wasn't until my daughter started reaching the more interactive stage that I started really enjoying being a father. The helpless infant stage where all they do is lie there, cry, and poop their diapers is hardly the stuff dreams are made of, for me anyway I dont think there is anything unusual about this at all. Women seem to, in general, get more satisfaction out of caring for a totally helpless infant than men do. Speaking for myself, I was starting to wonder if it was all a terrible mistake initially. Our firstborn (a daughter) was colicky. She would scream nonstop for hours on end, which no amount of consoling could quiet. From one point of few, the first 6 months of that was quite hellish. I think the worst part of all was not knowing how long that sort of thing would last. I remember wondering if I had doomed myself to a lifetime of misery. However, once she began to develop more to the point where she began to be more aware of the world around her, to speak, crawl, walk, and in general just became more interactive with us and her surroundings, then it all started to improve. Then I discovered the incredible rewards that parenthood can hold. There is nothing on this earth like the love in my daughter's eyes when I come home from work and she runs to the door to greet me with "daddy's home!" and a big hug. She is now 3 and one half years old, and is one of my greatest joys on this earth. So, hang in there buddy. Just remember that this is a temporary stage and it WILL get better

I greatly appreciate all that you said here. I feel better, just knowing that I am not some crazy bastard, but that my feelings generally relate to other mens' fellings...that have children, and know what it is like. Thank you.

On another point of view...Do any men here feel jealous that the child gets more attention than the man? Alot of times, I think problems in the family occur when the mother gives so much attention to the baby(youngest child), that older children's feelings and the feelings of the father are forgotten, or dramatically lessened, and so the lonleyness causes jealousy to occur in siblings and the father. The mother unknowingly causes strife to breed as she thinks that the only thing that matters is the youngest child's care. (In my Brother-in-law's example...it causes that one child that gets all the attention to think that all of the older children must bow to his every need, as well. )



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Devoted member of the Ironworks
Loyal guardian of the OHF
Member of the Ancients' club

[Istaron]

Weeel... I do not have kids yet (thank god), but I do have some quite much younger siblings (the youngest became 1 years a couple of days ago... she learnt to walk before your baby did Larry )
I love all of my sibblings no matter what they do, how they behave and so. Although, I may get frustrated when they yell "Look Robert, wada cute girl!" when we're walking in the city... well, you get my point. That doesn't not make me love them less, just... care less.. ah, I find not the right word.
Well, my point is, I am sure you don't LOVE your daughter more just because she likes to play with you, you only finds it easier to show, and also easier to care.
But as I said, I am no father. Maybe it is a different thing then.

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We call him Bobby Corwen

[Sazerac]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: On another point of view...Do any men here feel jealous that the child gets more attention than the man? Alot of times, I think problems in the family occur when the mother gives so much attention to the baby(youngest child), that older children's feelings and the feelings of the father are forgotten, or dramatically lessened, and so the lonleyness causes jealousy to occur in siblings and the father. The mother unknowingly causes strife to breed as she thinks that the only thing that matters is the youngest child's care. (In my Brother-in-law's example...it causes that one child that gets all the attention to think that all of the older children must bow to his every need, as well. )

Well, I am speaking second-hand here again, but what I've seen generally happen among my parenting friends is that this generally happens only on the first one. By the second one a lot of the attention is more relaxed, and if they make it to #3 or #4 kid, it's downright lackidasical.

Case in point: a female friend of mine used to go berserk if her firstborn had a temperature over 100 degrees (38 C): call the doctors call the hospital call the nurse call call call! OMG my baby's DYYYYYINNGGGG!!!
After she had her third kid, he had skinned his knee really badly and was howling: she hauled him into the bathroom, washed it off, sprayed bactine on it, put a Telfa bandage on him, said "You'll live, kid," swatted him playfully on the butt and sent him back outside to play.
It's like the Law of Diminishing Returns: once you've had the first, the 2nd and third don't cause near as much hoo-hah.

Or at least they shouldn't. With some people, they are so fixated on having babies that they can't concern themselves with anything that's not a baby. This may be due to prior conditioning by a family or a personality trait. I have found this to be fairly rare among my friends who are parents (thank goodness!). They still maintain a healthy perspective about their kids and maintain their own interests as well.



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