NO DM Client for NWN2? (There goes NWN2)

[WOLFGIR]

First of all; Fanboys should be pounded and grounded and the dust that is left when done should be sealed in concrete and shot into space!

Secondly: Favourite henchemen? Aribeth? Linu? Bah, take it from a lone hunter, you want something done? Do it yourself!

Pathfinding and scripts for henchmen in NWN is only beaten by DaiKatana... (overdramatic! )

Serious note:
I don't trust gaming companies further then I can throw them these days. 3D Realms is the latest company actually doing something good by releasing a huge Demo for Prey. (If you haven't, try it and smell what it used to be when consumers still were important...) Atari is going down and leave a mess for modders etc to fiddle with to get some playablility with. Unfortunately we have had enough of those games and what we needed would be a "real" NWN 2, continuing the concepts of the original title.

Well Dragon Age is probably going to be sweet, when it is released in a duo pack with Duke Nukem forever...

[Attalus]

Originally posted by SHO-VA: Aribeth was high maintance. as was sharwin.. My favorite was linu.

I wouldn't know. I've never taken her. But, then, I've always liked high-maintenance women. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Micah Foehammer]

Oh for pete's sake, chill out over the DM client already. IT IS going to be included but as a download. Here's the latest from Bioware:

"We looked at a number of different scenarios and the best one that the team decided upon is to release the DM Client in full as a download the same day of the release. So while it will not ship in the box it will come out with the game. That's the official word as of today." (dated 5/18)

[robertthebard]

Yeah, I've seen that already, and it may be referenced here. The biggest downfall with that for me is that the DM Client is what separated NWN's from the rest of the games that came out then, and is still the most distinguishing feature. Most new games are shipping a toolset, or a lot of them are, anyway, but the DM Client was unique to NWN's. How can you even think of developing a sequel to it w/out including the DM Client? Whether the game rocks, or sucks ass, the whole project has been riddled with mismanagement of the property. I really believe that people are right to be discouraged by this. Remember ToEE? That's a game I never bothered to get, based on player reviews, and I'm maintaining the same stance with NWN 2. I really want to see what the community thinks about it after release, as that's what will decide whether I spend any of my nonexistant money on it.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by robertthebard: Yeah, I've seen that already, and it may be referenced here. The biggest downfall with that for me is that the DM Client is what separated NWN's from the rest of the games that came out then, and is still the most distinguishing feature. Most new games are shipping a toolset, or a lot of them are, anyway, but the DM Client was unique to NWN's. How can you even think of developing a sequel to it w/out including the DM Client? Whether the game rocks, or sucks ass, the whole project has been riddled with mismanagement of the property. I really believe that people are right to be discouraged by this. Remember ToEE? That's a game I never bothered to get, based on player reviews, and I'm maintaining the same stance with NWN 2. I really want to see what the community thinks about it after release, as that's what will decide whether I spend any of my nonexistant money on it.

What's the big deal about getting the DM Client as a downloadable patch, instead of on the game disk? I don't get it. The content is still there. For pete's sake, nobody complains about how the original NWN has required MULTIPLE patches, at one point at the beginning almost on a weekly basis.

TOEE was an entirely different kettle of fish - unlike NWN which has had constant "massaging" and patching, Troika seemed to take the attitude - "One and Done boys. Patch? What's a patch? Game works fine for us." I hardly think Bioware is going to take THAT approach, so any game issues that crop up will be handled in future patches.

And I hardly think the entire project has "been riddled with mismanagement".


For what it's worth I'm not sure I TOTALLY buy into all the changes that NWN2 is going to have (so there goes any "just another suck up Fan Boy" counter arguments) - 4 classes (if indeed that is true) is ridiculous (my multiplayer games and mods are going to have a 3 class restriction - be warned, there WILL BE NO munchkin characters allowed), and I don't like the changes in the amount of custom content we can control; especially the character portraits - I personally think 3D renders SUCK, NEVER seen a decent one.

[SHO-VA]

Bio-Ware is not making NWN2. Obsidion Entertainment is. OE, has a long history of making sequals, that frankly, suck. In the case of NWN2, not only are they ignoring the PW/multiplayer aspect that kept NWN alive and thriving for 4 years, Not only are they making it so that custom content cant be made by the average builder like in NWN, Not only have they left a DM client off the disk, A patch is not the way to inspire confidence that it will work properly. They have bastardized the D&D game with this 4 allowable classes on on char thing. They have forced Everyone to have cheesy weapon trails (vis effects) even normal animals have them on their claws. they have left out Flying, swimming, climbing, mounts, jumping, all of which would have, made it a true sequal. NWN is going to have those things long before NWN2 gets patched for them. they have made the out side areas in game have such a huge "footprint" that very few of them can be made in a mod. we havent seen how many interior tiles there are yet, but from months of screenshots, we have seen 2. have to wonder if there is more inside tiles. They have killed PWs with their at this point have to give the mod to every player. They cant even answer a simple "will there be a dedicated server" question.

OE can keep their game. I wont buy it. I refuse to be swayed by "Fan boy" arguements, as what is argued by the fanboys has little to no value of what I use NWN, and thus would have used NWN2 for. Call it doom crying, or whatever. It wasnt just one thing, it was all of them that led to this decision. The funny thing is, the fan boys continue to argue for the game, even though Most builders who have decieded not to buy it, have not tried to sway them. it just shows how poor the fan boy arguement is, when all they can offer is : "your not giving it a chance". "everything will be patched in later" "it will be the best game ever, as how could it not". well, I gave OE a chance, and then another and another, as I have been following along on there boards for a year and a half. Patches are at best limited additions to current content, not For vital systems. ie the DM client. It might be the biggest comp game flop of this century, just as it could be the best game ever. No one knows at this point, as No one has gotten to play it yet. However, I wont assume it will be just cuz a bunch of OC/SP players think it will.

[robertthebard]

For all I know, the SP campaign might be good, but I really don't get into single player anymore. No big watching a Pally die 50+ times fighting a dragon, for one thing...Still one of the best stories I have from Undermountain...Other than the five IW'ers that met up and got totally thrashed by that same dragon when he was still relatively new to the server. Online play is where it's at for me, and I'm not big on PW's. At least not yet. We had planned to build a PW for 2, but that remains to be seen. Flying, horses, et al meant very little to me, but cutting up a perfectly good game to make a sequel is not the way to go. It's not like they had to build a dm client for the game, and found out they couldn't, the client was already there. They dedicated all their time to the SP campaign, and that's all they are worried about. Modules like Undermountain will probably be impossible for all but people with ultimate gaming machines, a class that cuts me out, by a vid card, and a gig of ram...sucks. So you see, it's not just the DM client that has me upset with OE, it's the whole project. Things that were supposed to be in game, like mounts, that got pulled because they have to hurry up and release; Atari's fault, as far as I can see, and the last time I knew, the SP campaign wasn't even finished, so it's going to be rushed out to make their Sept release date. All signs that a game isn't going to be everything it should be.

[Micah Foehammer]

Originally posted by SHO-VA: Bio-Ware is not making NWN2. Obsidion Entertainment is. OE, has a long history of making sequals, that frankly, suck. In the case of NWN2, not only are they ignoring the PW/multiplayer aspect that kept NWN alive and thriving for 4 years, Not only are they making it so that custom content cant be made by the average builder like in NWN, Not only have they left a DM client off the disk, A patch is not the way to inspire confidence that it will work properly. They have bastardized the D&D game with this 4 allowable classes on on char thing. They have forced Everyone to have cheesy weapon trails (vis effects) even normal animals have them on their claws. they have left out Flying, swimming, climbing, mounts, jumping, all of which would have, made it a true sequal. NWN is going to have those things long before NWN2 gets patched for them. they have made the out side areas in game have such a huge "footprint" that very few of them can be made in a mod. we havent seen how many interior tiles there are yet, but from months of screenshots, we have seen 2. have to wonder if there is more inside tiles. They have killed PWs with their at this point have to give the mod to every player. They cant even answer a simple "will there be a dedicated server" question. OE can keep their game. I wont buy it. I refuse to be swayed by "Fan boy" arguements, as what is argued by the fanboys has little to no value of what I use NWN, and thus would have used NWN2 for. Call it doom crying, or whatever. It wasnt just one thing, it was all of them that led to this decision. The funny thing is, the fan boys continue to argue for the game, even though Most builders who have decieded not to buy it, have not tried to sway them. it just shows how poor the fan boy arguement is, when all they can offer is : "your not giving it a chance". "everything will be patched in later" "it will be the best game ever, as how could it not". well, I gave OE a chance, and then another and another, as I have been following along on there boards for a year and a half. Patches are at best limited additions to current content, not For vital systems. ie the DM client. It might be the biggest comp game flop of this century, just as it could be the best game ever. No one knows at this point, as No one has gotten to play it yet. However, I wont assume it will be just cuz a bunch of OC/SP players think it will.

Those sequels were before the Black Isle defections for one thing, so dismissing Obsidians NWN2 product on the basis of performance is a bit flawed. Maybe they will live down to your expectations, who knows.

As for lack of multiplayer, WHERE did you read that? I haven't seen ANYTHING that says multiplayer won't be supported. Perhaps there also hasn't been anything that says it WILL be supported either.

The PWs will suffer but I haven't found ONE that I liked for NWN (with the exception of EFU and that was before it went server wault - sorry Z, just calling it like I see it). How many PW's are there, and what percentage of NWN owners actually belong to them on a regular basis? I don't regret the loss of PW world support ONE BIT! Lack of multiplayer would be a different story however, so it you have some support for this show me please.

For what it's worth I don't support the fan-boy arguments that just because it's NWN 2(!) that it has to be great.

[ 07-09-2006, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Micah Foehammer ]

[SHO-VA]

""As for lack of multiplayer, WHERE did you read that? I haven't seen ANYTHING that says multiplayer won't be supported. Perhaps there also hasn't been anything that says it WILL be supported either. ""

its been stated, and defered too countless times for a few months now. From the basic statement from the developers: "We are making NWN2 for the play it once and shelve it crowd, they are the focus"(this would be the OC game included in the box). To the slips of there wont be a DM client on the disk, (since 90% of the NWN PWs use DM client regulary, not even counting the hundreds of Mini-DM adventurs through NWN conections) They have ignored questions of will there be a Dedicated server, and though we have had one answer on it, weeks ago by the lead developer of I dont Know, we should have had a yes or no by now. They have said, At this point every player of a PW, will have to dl the entire Mod to play it. That isnt good for anyone, the builders who like to keep things unknown untill played, or for making updates to the PW, as every time the PW updates, the players will have to re-dl the mod again. They have made several statements to the allowable size of Mods, and that they will be much smaller than NWN allows. take it all in, and it doesnt look good for the Multi play aspect. At least, NWN2 multi-play, will be nothing like NWN.

for the other part of your question, there are lots of PWs up and running now, Some full, some empty, some with just a few players. there are 1000s of registered multi-player accounts on gamespy. However no one, not bio-ware, atari, or obsidion knows how many bought NWN for what reason, as there was never a survey for why it was bought included with it. There wasnt one included in the registration either. They assume its for the SP.

reguardless, it doesnt mater at all, Im sure the game, will be a wonderfull play with yourself adventure, full of story, romance, and suprises. but when people get board with it, and go looking to play with other real people, it will be sadly lacking. Sure there will be a few PWs up, as lots of builders havent given up yet on it. But there wont be as many options to choose from, because OE, has alienated A large chunk of the Building Comunity with the way they have handeled things, and what they have cut out, and with what they are forcing us to conform to. Just because it has NWN2 as the title, does not meen it will be as good as, or even better than NWN, all it meens is that they got the licence to make it. Lots of sequals, movies, games, even books, are crap, when compared to the orginal...

[SpiritWarrior]

So basically, it's another money-making attempt by Atari, using the D&D label that just happens to be called NWN's 2 in an effort to trick the rest of us fans into buying a game based on the lie that it is someway similiar to its predecessor.