6000+ American Dead. Some Facts.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Gilidarius: World hunger is everyones problem (not just Americas) and it can not be fixed over night. Although it is a shame that such a large percentage of wealth is held by such a small percentage of people. That is the real crime.

Agreed.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

Originally posted by Gilidarius: 3) I will never again post messages about terrorism after a night of drinking. Although it has brought up some very interesting discussions about Africa, Capitalism/Socialism and other issues. [/B]

ROFLMAO!!! Understand that completely. Made a few posts during the night of drinking, too. My how different things look in the morning...




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Perversion is the true spice of life: Variety is just part of a healthy diet.

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: I agree with Kenyth. The Kuwaitis asked the US to go in. There was a risk at the time of Saudi invasion. There have been disputed borders between Arabia and Iraq for years. In any case following Silver Cheetahs law of cause and effect it's all Britains fault, because Britain created both Kuwait and Bahrain instead of giving the oil rich Kuwaiti oil fields to Iraq. Why did they do that I wonder? Money money money.

Yorick, I would like to point out that Silver Cheetah did not invent the laws of cause and effect -- they preexisted her existence by billions of years

And actually, Britain IS partially to blame for the troubles between Iraq and Kuwait, having created the artificial and arbitrary border to begin with. Prior to that, it was all the same country.

Yorick, seriously, obviously causation can be traced back till the beginning of time. One thing has led to another in the story of the human race. Nothing occurs in a vaccuum. However, it is no answer to say that if we consider causation at all, we must attach equal importance to events that happened a long time ago with those that happen today. The more recent the events in question, the stronger the causal influence upon the world today.

With regards to Palestine, for example, the old takeover of Israel by the Arabs does not merit the same causal weight as events which occurred in the lives of people still around today -- such as is the situation in modern Israel.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Yorick, I would like to point out that Silver Cheetah did not invent the laws of cause and effect -- they preexisted her existence by billions of years And actually, Britain IS partially to blame for the troubles between Iraq and Kuwait, having created the artificial and arbitrary border to begin with. Prior to that, it was all the same country. Yorick, seriously, obviously causation can be traced back till the beginning of time. One thing has led to another in the story of the human race. Nothing occurs in a vaccuum. However, it is no answer to say that if we consider causation at all, we must attach equal importance to events that happened a long time ago with those that happen today. The more recent the events in question, the stronger the causal influence upon the world today. With regards to Palestine, for example, the old takeover of Israel by the Arabs does not merit the same causal weight as events which occurred in the lives of people still around today -- such as is the situation in modern Israel.

I agree with everything except the last statement Dio. So much is in the past. Every thing from just then backwards. Where does one draw the line? The reality is, had the Arabs not so aggressively expanded Coptics, Assyrians, Kurds, Jews, Berbers and other middle eastern minorities wouldn't be in the predicament they are now. I had an Assyrian co-worker who's plight gets overlooked by the other more "significant evils" of the Arab world.

As you sow you reap. The Arab Islamic invaders sowed violence, and their inheritors reap it.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Yorick, those bases were not put there for the interest of Saudi Arabia, but for the US's own interests in keeping a military presence in the Middle East. It is false propaganda that the Saudis feared Saddam would invade them, and so invited the US in for their own protection. The reality is far different, that George Bush, Sr. pressured the Saudis into allowing the US in for reasons of its own. The propaganda of the time that this was all the Saudi's idea for their own protection was a self serving US government bit of misinformation. And THAT is why Bin-Laden turned against the US at the time of the Gulf War. This is the historical reality, which is well supported by the actual facts regarding the sequence of events and the known communications between the Bush adminstration and the Saudi government at the time. Understanding what actually happened in the Gulf War is crucial to understanding one of the main reasons for much of the hatred towards the US in the middle east today. For that reason I fully intend to refresh my memory again as to the exact details by a bit of research when I get a chance (it has been a while since I studied it and I need to go over it again) and start a separate thread about this very issue. So don't ask me to back up what I am saying with references right now. I promise to try to do so in the near future though

Dio those bases where built in the early and mid 80's, while Iraq and Iran where fighting years before Iraq invaded Kuwait. Built by the Saudi's to the USAF specifacations for the defense of Saudi Arabia. That is the fact. I remember a 60 minutes show on the bases in the 80's, I saw it. Fact Iraq invaded 2 Aug, 1990 gulf war started 17 Jan 1991 . I don't mean to sound condescending but do the math 5 months to build air bases! 3,500-5,000 ft long runways in the sand then you have to lay the foundations for all of the buildings and build them. Now you have to move the troops in, bring all of the planes over, remember the planes can't land until the runways are finished. Oh yea ,the planes have to be stored in hangers and hardened hangers. Now we have to get the supplies for everything there.
The USA and Saudi Arabia built those bases in the 1980's for Saudi defense and that is the facts, nothing but the facts .



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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[Sir Kenyth]

I've bumped this back up as an example. I thought this was a real good thread. It was one of my favorites in the war forum. It was full of good argument and mostly devoid of hostility. Maybe we can use this as a model for future topics?

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Member of ORT
Master Barbsman and weilder of the razor wit!
Official royal toad! Ribbit! Ribbet I say!

The true secret to happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have!

[Bullvye]

Originally posted by Gilidarius: Give me a break. While many Americans are giving aid to Africa it is not enough. If even half of the effort and money that has gone into this campaign against terrorism it would go a long way to solving the problems of Africa. Also if you think Africa is "tribal" you have another thing coming. You obviously have not been to Africa or you would know that not to be true. Kenya and South Africa for instance have extremly urbanized cultures which reflect the level of Westernization in these countries. Sendng AID to the starving children of Africa is a one night response and not a cure. Also I might add that I have the deepest sympathy for those affected by this tradegy. My thoughts go out to the families in despair.

You give me a break!..I was in Somalia in 1993 and saw the treatment by the people there towards American aid workers and soldiers during Operation Just Cause! I watched on news, horrified, as the bodies of U.S. Army Rangers, killed trying to rescue the personnel of two downed Blackhawk helicopters, were dragged behind cars in the streets while the people (that America was trying to feed!!!) cheered on.

I beleive that innocent people starving and unable to help themselves should be able to seek assistance from other nations. I also believe that it is the responsibility of every nation to try to end world hunger. But since when did it become our FAULT? Africa is not oppressed by the United States! We are not starving the people there! I believe that we should help, out of compassion to our fellow man, any nation that cannot help themselves! But I also believe that if we travel 3000 miles to give humanitarian aid to a foreign nation, that they should have the common decency NOT TO SHOOT AT US!!!

If that is just to hard to do.....than figure out your own problems! Let another country go and feed them and explain to their families how a their sons and daughters were killed by the people they were trying to help!

Sorry if this seems abit harsh ....I was there ....I saw it...and I lost friends!

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I'm not BAD,.....but the BAD don't mess with me!"

[This message has been edited by Bullvye (edited 10-24-2001).]

[John D Harris]

Bullvye,
Did I read one of your posts earlier that you were a member of "Special Forces" at one time? Or was I having a flash-back from my mind altering youth

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Crustiest of the OLD COOTS
Airline ticket to Afghanistan $800
High powered rifle with scope $1000
Hotel room with roof access $100
A clean Head shot on that sack of Horse Manure Usuma Bin Laden PRICELESS!

[Bullvye]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Bullvye, Did I read one of your posts earlier that you were a member of "Special Forces" at one time? Or was I having a flash-back from my mind altering youth

U.S. Air Force Pararescue. 1988 to 1998. Hoo Yahh, Baby!

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I'm not BAD,.....but the BAD don't mess with me!"