What is your view on China?

[K T Ong]

In the 19th century it was the Americans (led by Commodore Perry) who forced Japan to open her doors to trade. Prior to that Japan didn't want to have anything to do with America. So, who was the first aggressor?

Here's also something from a certain Andrew Simms, head of the global economy program at the London-based think-tank, New Economic Foundation: "As a consequence of American policies, in a single day under globalisation, poor countries lose nearly $2 billion due to rigged international trade, 30,000 children die from preventable diseases, and $60 million drains from poor to rich countries in debt."

All in all, if America's human rights records are all that spotless, it becomes a perfect mystery to me why in May 2001 the UN's Economic and Social Council should have decided to oust the US from the 53-member Human Rights Commission -- the first time this had happened since the formation of the Commission in 1946 -- as the result of a secret ballot in which it was largely the European nations that cast their votes.

[ 08-27-2002, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: K T Ong ]

[dizzy]

HMMM.... I think China is a good wrastler! lol muahaha. I don't know really.
But they have a large military.

[Avatar]

Originally posted by MagiK: Just for the record, untill this debate, I never even thought about China's participation in Korea and Vietnam when China was mentioned...(see my first list of things that I thought about China)Now I remember Many civilian US airmen giving their lives to try and save China from Japan and all the aid that was sent....lovely how those kind gestures are remembered and repaid...the idea was to try and stop national aggression and expansionism...or so the theory goes. On a different front..Has any of the Chinese Natives on this board seen the Discovery Channel's (or was it the History Channel's) Special on the Great Wall? I was wondering what you might have thought of the special and wether you thought it was well done.

yes yes, quite right,I am annoyed that China doesn't do enough in terms of international aid since we are a security council nation.

[K T Ong]

Originally posted by dizzy: HMMM.... I think China is a good wrastler! lol muahaha.

I think the Mongolians make better wrestlers.

Originally posted by Avatar: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: TIBET ... just in case you haven't looked at a map for the past few decades "tibet" is in China. If you want to argue that I am quite happy to bring up Okinawa, S.Korea, Hawaii...etc. TAIWAN ... yup yup I apologise for the millions massacred there! eh WHAT?! Chinese troops have never landed on Taiwan let alone civilians. KOREA ... ummm and what about the American troops? VIETNAM ... what about it? You were there, we weren't.

[/QUOTE]
Okinawa is not a US state and has its own government, Americans are there at that governments request only. I believe that like Puerto Rico Okinawa is now a "territory" or some such, which I do know the citizens get to vote about that on a regular basis. There are three options in that vote, Statehood, independance or the status quo ...usualy they choose the status quo by a landslide since as a territory they get all the perks of being part of the USA but don't have to pay income tax, obey federal laws and they don't get to vote for the US president.

S. Korea is not a US state and has its own government (which by the way WANTS the US troops there because the communist regime to their immediate north has definate aggressive tendancies)This is the only reason the USA wont adopt the Anti-Landmine proliferation act (that it proposed) is because the other signee's will not make the exception for those in use in Korea.

Hawaii IS a US state and is better for it..you do know the residents there voted to become a state right? There is no significant public sentiment for Hawaii to leave the Union either...whats more ..they are not shot or imprisoned if they voice such opinions.

Tibet, yep they are NOW part of China and STILL do not want to be. Did they have a coice? nope. Did they vote to become part of China? Nope. Are they free to practice their religion? Nope.

Taiwan is mentioned because China is regularly threatening them with utter anhiliation, with Massive troop conetrations along the strait between them and with thousands or missiles pointed at them. If China had a decent navy there would be serious cause for concern there.(they are buying ships from Russia nearly as fast as they can) I never accused China of masacres in Taiwan...just pointed out that China doesnt how did you put it? "Keep to their selves" Of course if you have a sliding definition of what your self is....

Vietnam au Contraire mon capitan there were quite a number of Chinese "advisers" there, as well as a significant amount of both Russian and Chinese hardware. (and a fair number of Russian advisers too) Yeah we had combat troops there but I already discussed that in the previous post.

yes there were some horrible acts comitted by the early American settlers when they formed this nation but since my ancestors didn't show up in this country till the late 1800's I refuse to feel guilty about it.(that and slavery..I know for a fact none of my ancestors ever had slave nor did they "scalp" indians)

Errr I am not even sure why I am defending the US...the topic was what I thought about China...

[ 08-27-2002, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Avatar: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Just for the record, untill this debate, I never even thought about China's participation in Korea and Vietnam when China was mentioned...(see my first list of things that I thought about China)Now I remember Many civilian US airmen giving their lives to try and save China from Japan and all the aid that was sent....lovely how those kind gestures are remembered and repaid...the idea was to try and stop national aggression and expansionism...or so the theory goes. On a different front..Has any of the Chinese Natives on this board seen the Discovery Channel's (or was it the History Channel's) Special on the Great Wall? I was wondering what you might have thought of the special and wether you thought it was well done.

yes yes, quite right,I am annoyed that China doesn't do enough in terms of international aid since we are a security council nation.[/QUOTE] I never mentioned China not doing enough as a member of the security council...I was speaking of gratitude towards a nation that made it possible (through the sacrifice of lives and material) for there to BE a China now. I supose it could be argued that we just fronted the men and material to China so that Japan would concentrate there and allow us time to gather our strength and then crush them....but then the idea that you can kill two birds with one stone is not totally alien either..Save China...and help our war effort all at the same time...
As for China and international aid, I think that there could be made an argument that China has enough to do in its own territory that it could be forgiven for not contributing at all to international concerns. That China is involved is one thing that makes me believe that eventually the differences between China and the USA will get worked out.

And despite my fervent posting and debating and discussion [img]smile.gif[/img] I don't Hate China, or the people of China and just as I feel no guilt for Slavery or American Expansionism in the 1700's and 1800's I don't feel any great passion about blaming China or any other nations for old transgressions...just want to make sure the HISTORY stays accurate as possible.

[Avatar]

i think I can have a field day debating whether the residents of Okinawa want US troops on there or not.
Well if Alaska suddenly started a massing hundreds of federal battalions and wnat independence I doubt USA will be over the moon.

Originally posted by K T Ong: quote: Originally posted by dizzy: HMMM.... I think China is a good wrastler! lol muahaha.

I think the Mongolians make better wrestlers. [/QUOTE] Im not sure if you all get to see the WWF over there KT [img]smile.gif[/img] but China is the stage name of a rather nice looking well built Female wretler here in the US [img]smile.gif[/img]

[K T Ong]

Originally posted by MagiK: And despite my fervent posting and debating and discussion [img]smile.gif[/img] I don't Hate China, or the people of China and just as I feel no guilt for Slavery or American Expansionism in the 1700's and 1800's I don't feel any great passion about blaming China or any other nations for old transgressions...just want to make sure the HISTORY stays accurate as possible.

Fair enough. Thank you for not hating China.

Just remember, to get a truly accurate historical account of anything, you need to look at the issue from all sides of the debate.

Originally posted by MagiK: Im not sure if you all get to see the WWF over there KT [img]smile.gif[/img] but China is the stage name of a rather nice looking well built Female wretler here in the US [img]smile.gif[/img]

I'm aware of that! And her name is spelled as Chyna, not China. Hey, you should know better than me!

[ 08-27-2002, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: K T Ong ]

Originally posted by K T Ong: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: And despite my fervent posting and debating and discussion [img]smile.gif[/img] I don't Hate China, or the people of China and just as I feel no guilt for Slavery or American Expansionism in the 1700's and 1800's I don't feel any great passion about blaming China or any other nations for old transgressions...just want to make sure the HISTORY stays accurate as possible.

Fair enough. Thank you for not hating China.


I just wanted to reset the emmotional tone..my writing style is irritating and I know it, so I try to occasionally post what my mood actually is.

Just remember, to get a truly accurate historical account of anything, you need to look at the issue from all sides of the debate.


This I also know [img]smile.gif[/img] I stress it a lot to a lot of people. Though to be quite honest, I could use a link to an english translation of whatever the major news source in China is.

I'm aware of that! And her name is spelled as Chyna, not China. Hey, you should know better than me!
Well not really, I dont watch those shows [img]smile.gif[/img] They are almost as bad as NASCAR [img]smile.gif[/img] ...just not my choice of entertainment. [/QUOTE]