Skill gain - Page 2

Aerich · 10-21-2004, 11:30 PM

Yeah, keep on with the pally. Also, make sure you use his/her special abilities. A pally with 18 Dex makes a darn good tank for durability, if not for causing damage, until you get The Sword. That's because they get an innate protection from evil power that lasts for a looong time. Even better, the AC bonus stacks with the lvl 1 Cleric spell protection from evil, or (possibly and, I can't remember at the moment) with Protection from Evil 10' Radius (lvl 4 Cleric spell).

There's a guy who used to be on another board I frequent who regularly took three(!!!) paladins in his parties.

NobleNick · 10-25-2004, 10:29 PM

Calagari,

Yes, yes, YES. Glad Aerich mentioned this often overlooked property of Paladins: with their good saving throws they make excellent tanks: Those who are very experienced prefer them over Fighters for this duty.

Three Paladins in a party? Someone REALLY likes them!

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

Aerich · 10-25-2004, 11:08 PM

Oh, that's right, I forgot about the natural +2 bonus to saves. It stacks with the Special Ability Protection from Evil, as well as the PfE spell. All in all then, your tank can have +6 bonus to all saves (I think) with just one spell and one longlasting special ability.

Dancing Virginia · 10-26-2004, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Calagari:
What I learned from this is to next time I start a new party to make more single class members and Dc them later along the game. The benefits seem better. I also learned that I could survive without his spell help. It was a bit more difficult but was possible.

Nick, I believe you may have ANOTHER convert! I told Calagari to read the posts I put up about six weeks ago! :-D lol! Well, he'll incorporate the DC strategy next time 'round!

As a related question, I recently leveled up to 6 on my soon-to-be fighter/mage. (I haven't DC-ed her yet.) When this occurred, I wasn't allowed to add my PP to bows (which already had 3). I was only allowed to give her the PP in axe (which had 2) or something completely new. Since she's a fighter, I should have been able to give my PP to bows right? Does anyone have any perspective on this?

Cary

Edited to add question.

[ 10-26-2004, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Dancing Virginia ]

NobleNick · 10-26-2004, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dancing Virginia:
Nick, I believe you may have ANOTHER convert...

...I wasn't allowed to add my PP to bows (which already had 3)... Since she's a fighter, I should have been able to give my PP to bows right? Does anyone have any perspective on this?

Cary,

Converts, yes. I think it is the game construct of IWD/HoW that does it. I like to view our conversations as merely a Haste spell to the process!

Congrats! Your Fighter is maxed out in Bow! Your Fighter gets the max stacking allowed for any class under D&D 2nd Ed. rules: 5 PP in Melee and 3 PP in Ranged Weapon.

Looks like you stacked that PP in Axe, to make it 3 PP, right? Excellent! Among other benefits, you just gained an extra 1/2 ApR in Axe. You are 3 and 3. keep stacking in Axe until you DC or get to 5 and 3! Let's see, if each of your Fighters' CON=18 then they should all have 84 HP. If you DC at F[9], your new class will start out with 126 HP (!!!) and eventually have 4 and 3 weapon proficiencies. WOOT! Ain't Fighter DCs grand?

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 10-26-2004, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

jmsteven · 10-26-2004, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NobleNick:
4.) They must be rolled to have at least the minimum in the prime requisites for the class they start with, and they must also have the minimum + 2 points in each of the prime requisites for the class to which they will DC. There are also alignment requirements for the Druid. So, you must plan out your DC path and make sure you have met all requirements for it AT CHARACTER GENERATION.

I think the rule is that you must have a 15 in prime requisite stats of the initial class and a 17 in the prime requisite stats of the dual-class. For example if you want a fighter/druid dual-class character, you would need a minimum:

Str: 15
Wis: 17
Cha: 17

One DC combination I don't think was mentioned was the Thief dualed to a Fighter. Since the most useful thieving skills in the game are find/remove traps, you start with a thief and place all the skill points in that area. Dual to a fighter after level 3 or 4. With an 18 Dex, you should have between 80 or 100% find/remove traps.

Disadvantages:
(1) you lose exceptional strength bonuses, although there are items that remedy this; and
(2) you lose 18-24 possible HP from your overall total (8 vs 14 max HP/level for 3 or 4 levels).

Advantages:
(1) a high level fighter who can find/remove traps.
(2) you get to keep the thief proficiency slots. This means you can have 5 proficiency slots in a thief weapon (like swords or bows) at level 6 instead of 9.

For example you take your thief to 3rd level before dualing to a fighter, you get 2 weapon proficiencies:

Bows: *
Large Swords: *

Then you get four proficiencies as a 1st level fighter, and two more by 6th level. The Thief 3/ Fighter 6 could have:

Bows: ***
Large Swords: *****

[ 10-26-2004, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: jmsteven ]

Aerich · 10-26-2004, 11:15 AM

It's not that the fighter (or whatever) forgets how to fight; the character has made a conscious decision to dedicate him/herself to a new discipline. As such, they try to meet obstacles in the way prescribed by their new class.

I admit that the distinction isn't very convincing, in the context of the game. In PvP D&D you still had the option of using your old skills, you'd just lose lots of XP for doing so - with the understanding that you'd fallen into old habits and didn't gain much understanding (or XP, if you will) of the new class.

I've never used the thief/fighter; there's a couple reasons for it - first, the HP loss you mentioned, second, I usually like a MC thief so I get to use the skills all the way along.

If I was going to use a thief[3-6?]/fighter, I'd put all the skill points into stealth. That way, I could use the T/F as a scout and backstabber. I'd also have another thief along to do all the other skills like trap detection. Just a personal preference.

jmsteven · 10-26-2004, 01:13 PM

Why not use a Ranger as a scout? He's a great fighter, and he gets lots of HP.

Rangers can stealth
Bards can pick pockets and "knock" doors or chests

So, if you have these in your party, the only thief ability needed is find/remove traps.

Here's an idea for a party of 3 that covers every important skill set:

Half-elf Cleric/Ranger
Half-elf Bard
Human Thief 4 dualed to Fighter

[ 10-26-2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: jmsteven ]

Dancing Virginia · 10-26-2004, 05:24 PM

Oh, okay. Why did I think you could put 5 PPs in bow? Crazy. Oh well. I'm eventually going to have a fighter/mage that can do some major damage. Um, once she gets to Mage 9, that is. *sigh*

jmsteven · 10-26-2004, 08:17 PM

What's a swingout and why does it cost $160?

10-21-2004, 11:30 PM	#11
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Yeah, keep on with the pally. Also, make sure you use his/her special abilities. A pally with 18 Dex makes a darn good tank for durability, if not for causing damage, until you get The Sword. That's because they get an innate protection from evil power that lasts for a looong time. Even better, the AC bonus stacks with the lvl 1 Cleric spell protection from evil, or (possibly and, I can't remember at the moment) with Protection from Evil 10' Radius (lvl 4 Cleric spell). There's a guy who used to be on another board I frequent who regularly took three(!!!) paladins in his parties. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

10-25-2004, 11:08 PM	#13
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Oh, that's right, I forgot about the natural +2 bonus to saves. It stacks with the Special Ability Protection from Evil, as well as the PfE spell. All in all then, your tank can have +6 bonus to all saves (I think) with just one spell and one longlasting special ability. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

10-26-2004, 11:15 AM	#17
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	It's not that the fighter (or whatever) forgets how to fight; the character has made a conscious decision to dedicate him/herself to a new discipline. As such, they try to meet obstacles in the way prescribed by their new class. I admit that the distinction isn't very convincing, in the context of the game. In PvP D&D you still had the option of using your old skills, you'd just lose lots of XP for doing so - with the understanding that you'd fallen into old habits and didn't gain much understanding (or XP, if you will) of the new class. I've never used the thief/fighter; there's a couple reasons for it - first, the HP loss you mentioned, second, I usually like a MC thief so I get to use the skills all the way along. If I was going to use a thief[3-6?]/fighter, I'd put all the skill points into stealth. That way, I could use the T/F as a scout and backstabber. I'd also have another thief along to do all the other skills like trap detection. Just a personal preference. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

10-26-2004, 05:24 PM	#19
Dancing Virginia The Magister Join Date: July 23, 2004 Location: Cairo, Egypt Age: 45 Posts: 100	Oh, okay. Why did I think you could put 5 PPs in bow? Crazy. Oh well. I'm eventually going to have a fighter/mage that can do some major damage. Um, once she gets to Mage 9, that is. sigh __________________ Ya salaam!

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10-25-2004, 10:29 PM	#12
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	Calagari, Yes, yes, YES. Glad Aerich mentioned this often overlooked property of Paladins: with their good saving throws they make excellent tanks: Those who are very experienced prefer them over Fighters for this duty. Three Paladins in a party? Someone REALLY likes them! -------------------- What's a party, without a song? Bards ROCK! Party On!!

10-26-2004, 01:13 PM	#18
jmsteven Dungeon Master Join Date: October 14, 2004 Location: Beregost Age: 36 Posts: 80	Why not use a Ranger as a scout? He's a great fighter, and he gets lots of HP. Rangers can stealth Bards can pick pockets and "knock" doors or chests So, if you have these in your party, the only thief ability needed is find/remove traps. Here's an idea for a party of 3 that covers every important skill set: Half-elf Cleric/Ranger Half-elf Bard Human Thief 4 dualed to Fighter [ 10-26-2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: jmsteven ]

10-26-2004, 08:17 PM	#20
jmsteven Dungeon Master Join Date: October 14, 2004 Location: Beregost Age: 36 Posts: 80	What's a swingout and why does it cost $160?

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