01-02-2003, 04:53 PM | #11 |
Ra
Join Date: May 19, 2002
Location: The US of A
Age: 35
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last year I started a topic like this titled SORCERORS VS WIZARDS. I was favoring wizards and daan is right Dundee hasn't came yet and rip you to shreds just as he has to me. But still asn't changed my opinion. Sorcerors can cast a [b]FEW[\B] spells more often than Wizards can [B]BIG WOOP[\B]. Sure sorceros can cast some spells more often. Pretend this a wizard and a sorceror have both been friends for years and they all know their spells. Next week they both know they gotta fight eachother for some strange circumstance. The sorceror has to level up awfully quick to learn more spells. The mage knowing all the sorcerors spells can read scrolls that would counter the Sorcerors spells. I doubt that would happen. Wizards are more flexible. They have more access to a variety of spells and if they know what they are up against well they can easily learn memorize it and did I forget that you receive [B]EXPIERENCE POINTS[\B] for that.Now I heard from a paticular someone that when you create a sorceror and choose the wise spells it can counter about every situtation that comes walking to you. You know what I say? WRONG! yes yes I heard this example before. Lets say you are a dull witted sorceror. A archer is shooting at you and hits you when you were just about to cast magic missile. Well you will do it again and again and again. Well obviously you will eventually succeed. I tell this to all sorceror fans I reconize this advantage. But what if you go up against something lets say a uh uh well a monster right. And say the few spells you chose has now effect on him. Oh no you say I am almost completley useless. I can deal damage to it but hey not enough to kill it. This is a rule for wizards and sorcerors: No spells with no protection= DEATH. A wizard would most likely come with a variety of spells. The wizard might or might not kill it but most likey deal more damage than the sorceror can. But a sorceror against a monster that is vulnerable to most of the sorcerors spells is toast. Wizards can do this too. (But not all the time.) Now I am finished with my statement and am ready to see many many people go against me.
P.S. For the mage supporters out there please help me out cause last time I was alone against Dundee (shrudders) and many other sorceror supporters.
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01-02-2003, 05:40 PM | #12 |
Drow Warrior
Join Date: January 8, 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Age: 46
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Let's use my level 38 necromancer as an example...
The advantage lies in having a greater repetoire of spells available, and he's got just about every spell in his book. If both spellcasters were equally skilled, they would be able to neutralize each other for a good period of time. But during that time, the mage would learn what spells the sorcerer has available, and rememorize-wish-rest accordingly. The sorcerer cannot do that. The necro can summon anything, cast any offensive spell, cast any defensive spell, the sorcerer can't. Since the sorcerer is limited, the necro will be able to block what needs blocking, and attack where the sorcerer is weakest. The adaptability of the mage outweighs the brute force of the sorcerer. The brute force of the sorcerer will take anything else out. In the end, it would really come dowen to who fails a save first.
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01-02-2003, 05:43 PM | #13 |
Ra
Join Date: May 19, 2002
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well said very well said! Now I wonder what Dundee has to say hmm.
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01-02-2003, 05:52 PM | #14 |
Jack Burton
Join Date: November 10, 2001
Location: Bathurst & Orange, in constant flux
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Some people make more powerful mages than sorcerers, some people are better off as a Sorcerer.
If you like knowing *exactly* what you can cast, *exactly* how many you can cast, and prepare for battles in advance with that knowledge, a mage is best for you. If you`re like me, and often forget to re-organise your memorised spells, you will undoubtedly find a Sorc easier to play, and more powerful in your game than any of your mages. [img]smile.gif[/img] *Waits for Dundee...* [ 01-02-2003, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: LennonCook ] |
01-03-2003, 01:20 AM | #15 | ||||||
Ironworks Moderator
Join Date: June 10, 2001
Location: Pasir Ris, Singapore
Age: 41
Posts: 11,063
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Crikey, some people seem to think I am an Ogre when it comes to debating. [img]tongue.gif[/img] On with the commenting,
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A Sorcerer can select 4-5 spells per spell level, and in a twisty way, this is roughly how many good spells there are per spell level. What a Sorcerer uses, is also what a Mage usually uses, but the Sorcerer has the advantage of immediate versatility and superior firepower to boot. Quote:
If you are going to try and counter every single thing a Sorcerer can do, you are eventually going to lose because believe it or not, the spells I described above are endless and infinite until the Sorcerer stops spellcasting. This is because of the Wish spell, which the Sorcerer can use during battle to restore spells effectively. Unless you lucked out or wasted all your level nine spell slots with the spell Wish, a Mage cannot do the same, and even then, not as effectively. Even with 25 WIS, the chance to get the "Rest & Rememorise" option is roughly 12.5% if I recall correctly. A tip for Mage users out there, do not use the Wish route( too much of a gamble for Mages). That is for Sorcerers. Use the Spell Trap method that Alson uses. This tactic can be found on this website. In conclusion, do not think that a Sorcerer is limited in his/her options. Quote:
Rightttt... ... Skeleton Warriors, Mordenkainen's Swords, Sword Spiders and Planetars are all an arcane spellcaster needs. Honestly... will a Sorcerer care if that Mage over there can conjure a Fire Elemental which will succumb to a MSword anyway? A Sorcerer can kill anything with ease, so long as the battleground is not a Dead-Magic Zone. Ever Weimer, Modder of many of the outrageously difficult Improved Fights, admits that they are a cakewalk for a Sorcerer, because you see... a Sorcerer is the cheesiest arcane spellcaster in the game. Short of psionics, a Sorcerer can defend him/herself from anything. A few select spells, and the Sorcerer more or less gives him/herself immunity to death. Why... for a lark, a Sorcerer can heal himself while simultaneously killing everybody in the MAP with the same spell. A Mage can try to do the same, but only a Sorcerer can take it to the extreme. Heard of the Ritual Mod? A Sorcerer can clear out the forest in less than a turn. Quote:
You speak of adaptability, but a Mage's adaptability is not during a battle. A Sorcerer can easily adapt during the battle, making last-minute decisions when something unexpected happens. A Mage cannot. When something unexpected happens to a Mage, what usually happens is that the next spell casted is called "Reload". [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] I understand you have fought Improved Irenicus. I will let it be known that my Sorcerer, with NO prior knowledge of what goes on in that mod, with no clue and with no idea of what to expect, defeated that mod on Insane Difficulty on the very FIRST try with no reloading. THAT's adaptability for you. A Sorcerer is not just about brute force, a Sorcerer is about brute force mixed with immediate versatility and very handy tactics that really come alive in a Sorcerer's hands, but are mediorce with a Mage. Quote:
Mmmmm... brains... ... |
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01-03-2003, 02:37 AM | #16 |
Drow Warrior
Join Date: January 8, 2002
Location: Dallas, Texas
Age: 46
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You make a powerful point with the fact that you took down improved Irenicus on the first try on insane with a sorcerer - though I am yet a neophyte at soloing, this does seem to be very strong evidence in favour of the class.
I refuse, however, to capitulate on the sorcerer versus mage debate, until I experience first hand what a sorcerer can do. Which means another run through the game with a magic user - a sorcerer. I will conceded the debate pending that effort.
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01-03-2003, 05:29 AM | #17 |
Silver Dragon
Join Date: August 25, 2001
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Dont worry, if you take a sorcerer through the game, you'll be done in no time
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01-03-2003, 06:59 AM | #18 | |||||||
Galvatron
Join Date: December 14, 2001
Location: Israel
Age: 36
Posts: 2,187
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Impressive post, Dundee! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
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Now, the defense settings depends on the arena settings. A big arena opens bigger opportunities - cast Mislead and hide the the decoy, run away and cast PI + Farshight, etc... Quote:
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I've got you now, Dundee Slaytern! I'm bookmarking this thread! [img]tongue.gif[/img] |
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01-03-2003, 12:25 PM | #19 |
Manshoon
Join Date: December 22, 2002
Location: massachusettes
Age: 37
Posts: 186
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consider this: A mage is fighting a sorcerer of an equal level. Both have 4 level 7 spells and 3 level 8 spells and 2 level 9 spells.
Level 9 selections are Spell Strike and Spell Trap (i would use energy drain...but then it would be a contest of fast-casting...kinda cheesy) Level 8 selections: Abi-Dalzim's horrid wilting, Pierce Shield, Incendiary Cloud Level 7 selections :Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray, Ruby Ray of Reversal, and Spell Turning probably the best mage vs mage spells out there (excluding the obvious cheese spells) consider this: the sorcerer has 2 full-dispels, and 2 partial dispells with lower resistance, and 4 partial dispells, while he can cast spell trap twice, and spell turning four times. the mage on the other hand, would have to fill up his entire vault of available spells to be able to match the abilities of the sorcerer just in dispelling...and not be able to do damage, whereas the sorcerer still retains all of his other spells. If the mage were to memorize each of the spells once, for the purpose of versatility, the mage would lose, simply because he couldn't dispell all of the sorcerer's shields. The mage would have 1 total dispell, 1 partial dispell with lower resistance, and 1 partial dispell. The sorcerer can cast spell turning 4 times, and spell trap 2 times. And still have all of his level 8 spells to kill with. This is why the sorcerer is better than the mage. |
01-03-2003, 12:30 PM | #20 |
Silver Dragon
Join Date: August 25, 2001
Location: -
Age: 38
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Yup, as Dundee already said :
-Mages are a little more versatile -not necessarily more effective though- before any fight. -sorcerers are more versatile during the fight A plan that cant be changed, 'll probably fail . . . A mage has more capabilities to come up with a very broad spell-plan .. but the sorcerer can constantly adapt to any situation. A lot more helpfull.
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