Female Suicide Bombers

[TheThing]

Yorick, your post is truely amazing [img]smile.gif[/img] check your private message, by the way ^^

[Yorick]

Originally posted by norompanlasolas: the israelis with their occupation and represion of the palestinian people, are doing, to an extent, what the nazis did to them. its a broad comparison, but its one that has been made by jose saramago (nobel prize of literature).

This is an appallingly callous statement that shows little understanding of the holocaust.

It has also enraged Jews and does little to foster goodwill.

In an argument the quickest way to infuriate someone is to invalidate a persons suffering.

The Jews were not attacking the Nazis, not sending in their children to blow up German cafes or weddings.

The Israelis are not rounding up every Palestinian man woman and child, putting them into camps and gassing them en-masse.

The Jews did not refuse to acknowledge Germanys right to exist as a nation, nor tell their children they would receive glory in the afterlife by killing German civilians.

Totally ridiculous irresponsible analogy. One designed to make a point at the expense of the collective emotional health of Jews worldwide.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by TheThing: Yorick, your post is truely amazing [img]smile.gif[/img] check your private message, by the way ^^

Thanks mate. Will do.

[Neb]

Scary as it is I actually agree with all of Yorick's posts....

Nice ones [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Sir Taliesin]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by fable: There are three million Palestinians, many of whom were forcibly evicted from their lands nearly fifty years ago by a nascent Israeli state. They haven't been allowed back in, since, and they live in refugee camps across the borders. I'm not saying they should be allowed back in, or shouldn't; doing so would cause enormous problems...but not doing so has created a canker in the MidEast that simply won't go away. .

Last I checked they left their homes of their own accord in expectation of the Arab invasion. Every Arab nation declared war on Israel, the Palestinians bailed. Israel kicked their arses in six days, so the Arab states resorted to terrorism to achieve the same result the war failed to do.

Annhialate Israel from the face of the earth.

Has anyone seen how small a territory the Arabs are begrudging the previously homeless Jews? The Jews who were persecuted in EVERY NATION THEY RESIDED IN.

Give them a break.

Noromp, you say you're not condoning suicide terror, yet then attempt to justify it. What else do you call it?

You know what I call it?

Old men who want power brainwashing children and other victims into doing what they are too gutless to do.

Why has Arafat not strapped a bomb to his chest? Isn't the Martyr the recipient of greater glory? Why are the Imams and Clerics not "dying for the cause"?

It's children.

The bombers are as much victims of the cowardly PLO/Hamas/Islamic Jihad leadership as much as the innocent civilians targetted. Even Israeli Arabs have been targetted - The Arabs own people!

Until the Palestinians love their children more than they hate Jews, there will be no peace.[/QUOTE]Yorick, I was just about to point that out. The Palestinians that stayed in Israel during the first war in 1948, were allowed to keep their homes and lands and peacefully co-exist with the Jews. The ones that left, because the other Arabs told them that the Jews would be wiped off the face of the earth, left out of greed. The other Arab nations promised the Palestinian people that they could have what the Jews had. Well they lost it all. I can't blame the Israelis for not letting them back in. That'd be like letting the Fox live in the hen house.

Now on the other hand, the way I see it is we have TWO OLD MEN that want to keep power. Sharon and Arafat. Both are willing to do whatever it takes to keep it. So they send the young ones out to die. Two old bulls in the same pasture fighting it out over a bunch of cows and neither is going to back down. What needs to happen is that both these old men get removed from power and let those that suceed them, work this out peacefully. As long as both Sharon and Arafat are in power there will be no peace.

Another thing that needs to happen is that Jeruselem needs to become a open city under it's on government, neither subservent to Isreal or Palestine. Much like the Vatican. I hate to say this, but maybe under UN control. Might even move the UN Headquarters there. Ummm... I may have something here... Move the UN out of New York... Jeruselem... open city... who loses here... No one!

Sorry lost my train of though for a moment!
Anyway, just my Two cents worth, not that my opinion matters much.

Good post Yorick!!!

[fable]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by fable: There are three million Palestinians, many of whom were forcibly evicted from their lands nearly fifty years ago by a nascent Israeli state. They haven't been allowed back in, since, and they live in refugee camps across the borders. I'm not saying they should be allowed back in, or shouldn't; doing so would cause enormous problems...but not doing so has created a canker in the MidEast that simply won't go away. .

Last I checked they left their homes of their own accord in expectation of the Arab invasion. Every Arab nation declared war on Israel, the Palestinians bailed. Israel kicked their arses in six days[/QUOTE]I'm not referring to the Six Days War, Yorick, but the events in the mid to late 1940s leading up to the establishment of the Israeli state.

[khazadman]

when the u.n. gave the jews a homeland in palestine in 1947(?)they also gave land to the palestinians.but then the palestinians backed the arabs in the first war (and every war since).when you fight a war you must live with the consequences.and the wars a still being waged.only the the combatants are children who are sent out at the behest of a bunch of evil old men who don't have the cajones to do the dirty work themselves.their only goal is to kill as many israelis as possible and destroy their state.if you doubt this i recomend you read todays new york times.they have done a story on hamas,and it's very eye opening.
and to bring poverty into this is pointless.the palestinians are poor because they are kept poor by arafat and all the other islamic leaders who spend their money on weapons to keep themselves in power.but of course when the masses of arabs have nothing it's the fault of the wicked jews and americans.and don't forget most of the thugs involved in the murders of 3000 people on the 11th came from wealthy families.so its not about money but hate pure and simple.

[fable]

Yorick, I was just about to point that out. The Palestinians that stayed in Israel during the first war in 1948, were allowed to keep their homes and lands and peacefully co-exist with the Jews. The ones that left, because the other Arabs told them that the Jews would be wiped off the face of the earth, left out of greed.

There's always going to be argument on this issue. I've read pro-Israeli accounts that emphasize that a lot less Arabs actually left the area than were previously stated, and Arab (and even some recent Israeli) accounts that present evidence showing Arabs were not paid for their land but frequently forced out at gunpoint.

My own inclination when faced with contradictory evidence is to follow what appears to me as commonsense. Would every citizen in a town accept money to leave the land they'd lived on, been born on, and raised their kids on? Would they do it for a bunch of people who were clearly unbelievers? I'm highly doubtful of this.

In any case, the fact that we differ just shows how confused the issues are. Each side believes earnestly in its truth. This isn't a question of Palestinian terrorists, or Israeli Nazis. It's a question of two diametrically opposed views of the past and the present, led by two men who hate each other, and what each other stands for.

[ 04-04-2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: fable ]

Originally posted by fable: There are three million Palestinians, many of whom were forcibly evicted from their lands nearly fifty years ago by a nascent Israeli state. They haven't been allowed back in, since, and they live in refugee camps across the borders. I'm not saying they should be allowed back in, or shouldn't; doing so would cause enormous problems...but not doing so has created a canker in the MidEast that simply won't go away. On top of this, the US has a very large and powerful Israeli lobby which no US government has been willing to alienate. The only one who came close was Bush, Sr, who was insulted by the Israeli government of-the-day's attitude, and basically told them what they could do with themselves. This means that all attempts at playing "honest arbitrator" are hobbled from the start, though Carter and Clinton both used their not inconsiderable mediation skills to secure or prop up the Camp David Accord. On top of that, you've got a series of essentially feudal Arab states with virtually no education, health care, work or decent living conditions for a very large underclass. To combat this, the Islamic fundamentalist movements have stepped in with shelters, food banks, etc. If a fourteen-year-old boy whose father has died, with seven younger brothers and sisters sees that he can get clothing and food from them at the local fundamentalist clinic, who do you think he'll turn to as a second father? And when they teach him their distorted version of Islam, do you think he'll ignore it, or take it to heart? Now, let's throw in Bush's repeated remarks aimed at threatening Iraq--which, remember, most MidEastern residents perceive as a nation of people of Islam like themselves, not a single, power-mad ruler. Stir well. For seasoning, throw in Sharon's announced and followed-through desire to build new Israeli settlements next on claimed Palestinian land; and Arafat's dictatorial, slimy methods of governing. Simmer with the Sharonian theory that the best way to deal with violence is both eyes for an eye. Recipe for disaster, folks.

Im going to go see a therapist after work tonight...I've been in agreement with too many of your posts lately [img]smile.gif[/img]

Was just reading a "worst case" outcome brief on the current crisis. Israel in all cases kicks major ass, but gains absolutley nothing they didnt have 5 years ago, the Palistinians are still a problem and all the Arab states get more PO'd at the USA....There really does not seem to be any winning scenario here...short of committing Genocide on one group or another.

[ 04-04-2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Evil Al]

Remember that one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. In Scottish peoples eyes at the time William Wallace was our freedom fighter, our hero and inspiration for something better, but in the eyes of the English he was a terrorist and a traitor that only deserved a painful death.
In a way he is just like the Arabs that take their own lives. Answer me this, if your home was taken from you would you either; except it or fight back anyway you can?
I know what I would choose to do...