Don't ask Don't tell - Page 3

shadowhound · 11-17-2002, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
If someone is good for the job, they should use him, regardless if has purple skin with yellow spots.

Is there something you are trying to tell us [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Yellow spotted, purple skinned people unite.

Donut · 11-17-2002, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
Am I speechless after reading that post. How anyone is going to agure that is beyond me.

This is one experience of gays in the forces. What about the thousands of gays that have served in the US forces and just done their duty? Some of them will have been heroes and won medals. You never hear about those because their sexuality was never known. I don't know what your experience of homosexuals and homosexuality is but you may be suprised to know that you know a few gay men. Some of your teachers will be gay, some of your police force will be gay, there are gay men in the NHL, gay men in the White House and gay wrestlers in the WWE. They may be married' maybe the father of one of your friends will be gay. They are everywhere, getting on with their jobs just like heterosexuals.

Getting back to the interpreters getting thrown out because they are gay. Picture the scene, Camp X-ray

.

'Corporal go interpret what that arab is saying.'

"Oh no sarge, don't send Donny, he may get hurt, I want to be with him. What if the arab says something nasty to him, he may hurt his feelings!"

"It's okay lover, I can take it, it's what I joined up for!"

Personally I think the Spartans got it right. Possibly one of the finest fighting forces in the history of mankind. Homosexuality was compulsory in the Spartan army! They thought it helped the soldiers to bond.

Iron_Ranger · 11-17-2002, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donut:

quote:
Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
Am I speechless after reading that post. How anyone is going to agure that is beyond me.

This is one experience of gays in the forces. What about the thousands of gays that have served in the US forces and just done their duty? Some of them will have been heroes and won medals. You never hear about those because their sexuality was never known. I don't know what your experience of homosexuals and homosexuality is but you may be suprised to know that you know a few gay men. Some of your teachers will be gay, some of your police force will be gay, there are gay men in the NHL, gay men in the White House and gay wrestlers in the WWE. They may be married' maybe the father of one of your friends will be gay. They are everywhere, getting on with their jobs just like heterosexuals.

Getting back to the interpreters getting thrown out because they are gay. Picture the scene, Camp X-ray .

'Corporal go interpret what that arab is saying.'

"Oh no sarge, don't send Donny, he may get hurt, I want to be with him. What if the arab says something nasty to him, he may hurt his feelings!"

"It's okay lover, I can take it, it's what I joined up for!"

Personally I think the Spartans got it right. Possibly one of the finest fighting forces in the history of mankind. Homosexuality was compulsory in the Spartan army! They thought it helped the soldiers to bond.[/QUOTE]I was hoping you would understand what I ment by that last post, but obviously you didnt. It doesnt surprise me though.

I was talking about being openly gay. Crimsons last post was a perfect example of that.

For the record, they has been 1 openly gay man in the NHL, his name was Greg Loughanis and he died of AIDS. If you look around on the players profiles it most of them are married with kids, the ones that arent are usally still pretty young.

Also for the recored I dont watch the WWE. And why do you have to be gay in order to bond together? I have bonded (is that a word?) with several other men and I am certaintly not gay.

AliCat · 11-17-2002, 07:30 PM

I agree that kicking those guys out of the Army was as smart as shooting yourself in the foot, but... the rules must be maintained ensure military discipline, which ultimately helps a soldier function effectively in the heat of combat without needing to think too hard. I agree here with Timber Loftis in that the guys involved should have kept their private life private -- and it wouldn't have been an issue.

As for gays in combat, it might work a bit better if relationships could be openly acknowledged, because then supervisors could make a point at keeping the couple in separate units, just as they try to do with married couples (if in the same squadron, they are often put in different flights, so that conflicts of interest don't get in the way of doing one's job).

As for women in the military, well, that's a little off-topic, but don't get me started. As a female veteran, I obviously believe there's a place in the military for women, wherever women choose to be. Deal with the relationship issue as above, and it shouldn't be involved in combat. And don't even try telling me about other issues involved. Love is not the only thing that gets in the way of efficient performance on or off the battlefield. All the usual sins are in the services, just as they are in civilian life. I've seen boys and men kicked out for total stupidity, stubbornness, failure to maintain weight, cruelty to others, theft, and so forth. Overweening ambition can be just as dangerous to the others in your squadron as a love affair.

Oh, and last I heard, the rank mentioned in a certain story listed above was spelled "sergeant".

Jeffi0 · 11-17-2002, 07:35 PM

Yeah, personal interests would just get in the way of a soldier. About gay people winning medals, that has nothing to do with it. Being gay does not affect how well a soldier fights...

caleb · 11-18-2002, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Donut:
gay wrestlers in the WWE.

Whatever would make you think that!?!

Iron_Ranger · 11-18-2002, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by caleb:

quote:
Originally posted by Donut:
gay wrestlers in the WWE.

Whatever would make you think that!?!

[/QUOTE]He is STILL around?!

Donut · 11-18-2002, 05:32 AM

How can I possibly guess that this is what you meant:

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
I was talking about being openly gay. Crimsons last post was a perfect example of that.

When you said this:

Quote:

Originally posted by Iron_Ranger:
Am I speechless after reading that post. How anyone is going to agure that is beyond me.

I spent 20 minutes trying to work out if 'agrue' meant 'argue' or 'agree'.

Read crimsons post again. Only two people knew the men were gay. That is not being 'openly' gay. You have introduced the word 'openly', I never did. I know that gay men can't come out in society because of small minded people. And let me give you a little heads up for the future, some gay men get married to women, and they have children!!!!! Really!!

Where did I say that the only form of male bonding was homosexual sex?

I don't have encyclopaedic knowledge of the NHL. Was that the same Greg Louganis that was an Olympic Gold medal winning diver? If it was he is still alive. He is HIV positive but as far as I know has not contracted AIDS. If it wasn't then that's some unlucky name!

[ 11-18-2002, 05:55 AM: Message edited by: Donut ]

Donut · 11-18-2002, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeffi0:
About gay people winning medals, that has nothing to do with it. Being gay does not affect how well a soldier fights...

That was my point.

Timber Loftis · 11-18-2002, 09:25 AM

Okay, 2 things:

One, plaigarism is representing someone else's work as your own. While I agree there is a lesson to be learned regarding citing/linking your posts, I think an accusation of plaigarism takes more. It is arguable either way in this case. On one hand, the posts on this board are made under member names, so there is a liklihood of an inference of originality. On the other hand, most of us recognize cut-pastes, so it's unlikely any of us would have thought the member wrote out the article off the cuff on his own.

Two, let me jump beyond the "should it be allowed" discussion of OPEN gays in the military (I'll note my earlier post explains why I think we should not). (Also note that in-closet gays are allowed.) Assuming open gays are allowed, tell me how to make it practical. Housing and showers for instance - which are communal. Now, must I really shower with someone who lets me know he's gay? Isn't that akin to making me shower with a woman or vice versa - as the "uncomfortableness" of sharing a shower is not based on gender, but on unwanted sexual desires or overtures. If you allow open gays, how do you NOT force yourself into a separate housing situation? Elsewise, why not treat all men & women that same: communal bunks and showers for all (like in Starship Troopers).

Assuming it's philosophically mandated, I still think it is simply to impractical.

11-17-2002, 07:35 PM	#25
Jeffi0 Zhentarim Guard Join Date: September 3, 2002 Location: Canada Age: 40 Posts: 308	Yeah, personal interests would just get in the way of a soldier. About gay people winning medals, that has nothing to do with it. Being gay does not affect how well a soldier fights... __________________ <br /><br />[url]\"http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010302\" target=\"_blank\">http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010302</a> First 8-Bit Theater comic. The first few aren\'t really funny, but the rest are great.

11-18-2002, 09:25 AM	#30
Timber Loftis 40th Level Warrior Join Date: July 11, 2002 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 11,916	Okay, 2 things: One, plaigarism is representing someone else's work as your own. While I agree there is a lesson to be learned regarding citing/linking your posts, I think an accusation of plaigarism takes more. It is arguable either way in this case. On one hand, the posts on this board are made under member names, so there is a liklihood of an inference of originality. On the other hand, most of us recognize cut-pastes, so it's unlikely any of us would have thought the member wrote out the article off the cuff on his own. Two, let me jump beyond the "should it be allowed" discussion of OPEN gays in the military (I'll note my earlier post explains why I think we should not). (Also note that in-closet gays are allowed.) Assuming open gays are allowed, tell me how to make it practical. Housing and showers for instance - which are communal. Now, must I really shower with someone who lets me know he's gay? Isn't that akin to making me shower with a woman or vice versa - as the "uncomfortableness" of sharing a shower is not based on gender, but on unwanted sexual desires or overtures. If you allow open gays, how do you NOT force yourself into a separate housing situation? Elsewise, why not treat all men & women that same: communal bunks and showers for all (like in Starship Troopers). Assuming it's philosophically mandated, I still think it is simply to impractical. __________________

11-17-2002, 07:30 PM	#24
AliCat Drow Warrior Join Date: January 7, 2001 Location: Waynesboro, VA, USA Posts: 255	I agree that kicking those guys out of the Army was as smart as shooting yourself in the foot, but... the rules must be maintained ensure military discipline, which ultimately helps a soldier function effectively in the heat of combat without needing to think too hard. I agree here with Timber Loftis in that the guys involved should have kept their private life private -- and it wouldn't have been an issue. As for gays in combat, it might work a bit better if relationships could be openly acknowledged, because then supervisors could make a point at keeping the couple in separate units, just as they try to do with married couples (if in the same squadron, they are often put in different flights, so that conflicts of interest don't get in the way of doing one's job). As for women in the military, well, that's a little off-topic, but don't get me started. As a female veteran, I obviously believe there's a place in the military for women, wherever women choose to be. Deal with the relationship issue as above, and it shouldn't be involved in combat. And don't even try telling me about other issues involved. Love is not the only thing that gets in the way of efficient performance on or off the battlefield. All the usual sins are in the services, just as they are in civilian life. I've seen boys and men kicked out for total stupidity, stubbornness, failure to maintain weight, cruelty to others, theft, and so forth. Overweening ambition can be just as dangerous to the others in your squadron as a love affair. Oh, and last I heard, the rank mentioned in a certain story listed above was spelled "sergeant".

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