THACO

[listeningism]

um... i was just reading that you could get a negative double digit armour class (THACO) by dragon's eye.. Im at the Hand, and the best THACO ive got in my party of 6 is -2 or -3.... I hope i havent missed anything If someone could straighten me outon this subject, I'd appreciate it. Thanks! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Dar'tanian]

Is it an Item that gives this to you or what?

[listeningism]

I dunno, i guess it must be an item.. ahwell
.. Thanks anyways

[ZFR]

I think some heavy buffing must be involved

[NobleNick]

listeningism,

Sometimes a player will export a character from an advanced party to go back and help a newer party through. Another way to get low AC is to give all your best protective equipment to one character (your tank).

It's been so long since I've been in D.E. that I honestly forget what my AC there was; but your AC does not sound too wimpy to me, especially if you've got your protective equipment spread about. My front line four (Fighter/Priest, Priest/Ranger, Fighter/Thief and Fighter/Druid; all DC) are all in or near the negative low-teens; but I am in TotLM. There is a shield +4 out there, in DE or severed hand, IIRC. Also, when your rolled your characters, did you max out DEX on your front line? It affects AC.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!

[Roboghost]

BTW the question was THAC0...not AC

Anyway, you can get great THAC0 on one fighter with:
a) three items
b) +2 THAC0 weapon or greater
c) 5 proficiency points in that one weapon
d) THAC0 drop a point per level of the fighter...so...it depends on his/her level as well.

SPOIL on thee items:
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1. Crypt four in Vale of Shadows: Ring of the Warrior (1 THAC0)

2. Tomb level one in Vale of Shadows: Gauntlets of Weapon Skill (1 THAC0)
Note: it allows you to hit a +3 monster when you only have a +2 weapon (this makes it better than the ring)!!

3. The Priest finger in the Hand: Symbol of Corellon Larethian (2 THAC0)

Near the end of the Hand, you can drop your THAC0 down 4 points on one character. Items 1 and 3 are random [I reload to get these two babies].

Tip: If you have two fighters, make one offensive and one defensive. The defensive guy always goes in first to distract and then move the offensive guy in for the kill.

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by listeningism: um... i was just reading that you could get a negative double digit armour class (THACO) by dragon's eye.. Im at the Hand, and the best THACO ive got in my party of 6 is -2 or -3....

Roboghost,

I interpreted the first sentence of listeningism's post to mean, "....negative double digit Armor Class (as in the AC referred to in THAC0)...." I'll admit that the sentence is not clear, and could lend itself to interpretation that listeningism is talking about THAC0; especially since he repeats that term in the second sentence. However, the second sentence also gives a contradicting clue: "I'm in the Hand, and the best THAC0 I've got is -2 or -3."

IIRC, some of my party have THAC0s in the low negatives; but I think that is with the Bard singing War Chant, and they are highly seasoned veterans (about 25 DC levels) with access to excellent gear found in HoW and TotLM. For me, THAC0 has lagged the downward progress of AC by roughly 10 points.

Although he might possibly not realize it, listeningism is talking AC, not THAC0. (Or I am really, REALLY missing something, and would like to be let in on the secret of how to legitimately attain natural [or even buffed] THAC0s this low by DE).

listeningism, I think you know; but in case you don't:

AC is your (or your enemy's) Armor Class, which is a composite of your ability to dodge/parry blows and/or feel no effect from a blow because of your armor. +10 is the equivalent of a stark naked bumbling, slow, weak, and uncoordinated adult human. 0 (zero) is the equivalent of a well trained, well armored, nimble, journeyman fighter. An AC of -10 is a magically armored veteran tank. -20 is, for purposes of this game, a well-buffed Demi-god. AC is influenced by your DEX, your armor/apparel, magical items, potions, spells, and songs.

THAC0 (typically pronounced THAY'- KOH or THAK' - OH) is Throw (on a 20-sided dice) needed to Hit Armor Class 0 (zero). So, if your THAC0 is 10 and your enemy has an AC of 0, then you must roll 10 - 0 = 10 (or higher) on a 20-sided dice to hit him: an 11/20 = 55% chance of a hit. If his AC is 5, you must roll 10 - 5 = 5 or higher: a 16/20 = 80% chance of a hit with each attack (a swing or a shot). If his AC is -5, you must roll 10 - (-5) = 15 or higher: a 6/20 = 30% chance of hit with each attack. For THAC0 = 10 and AC = -10, the attacker must roll 10 - (-10) = 20: a 1/20 = 5% chance of a hit with each attack. THAC0 is influenced by your weapon, STR, DEX (depending on weapon type), magical items, potions, spells, and songs.

No matter what you or your enemy's THAC0 or AC, an attack roll of 1 always misses (a "critical miss") and a 20 always hits (a "critical hit"). A critical hit doubles the natural damage, and (IIRC) a critical miss means you lose your next attack.

IF your attack roll is successful (results in a hit) then a separate set of target- and weapon-dependent rules/roll(s) is applied to determine how much damage the hit did.

So, did your question get answered?

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 12-16-2003, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Dundee Slaytern]

Double-Digit Negative AC by Dragon's Eye is easily achieved when one is playing on HoF Mode (high-level buff spells). Double-Digit Negative THACO though, is a more iffy issue (and less important anyway, since enemy AC is not that fantastic at that stage in the game, HoF Mode or not).

From memory... this is my Paladin inside Dragon's Eye (might have missed out a few things)

Plate Mail: 3
18 DEX: -1
Large Shield: -2
Ring of Protection +2: -4
Black Wolf Talisman: -5
Shimmering Sash: -8
Battle Axe +2: Defender: -10

That will be his undispellable AC. Now let us stack on some spells.

Innate Protection from Evil: -12 (lasts several hours)
Protection from Evil 10' Radius: -14 (you are more likely to rest first before the duration runs out)
The War Chant of Sith: -16

If we you do not mind the short duration, Defensive Harmony will push it to -20, while a level 9 Draw Upon Holy Might brings it to -21.

Imagine then... what the AC of the Paladin will be like, when he gets better equipment, namely armour, helm, cloak and shield.

Pseudo AC boosters include Curse, Prayer, Recitation, etc... because they weaken the enemy's THACO, making your AC more effective.