Smarter Mind Flayers (terrible idea)

[Lord]

Wow. That's all I can say; wow. I recently updated my mods and decided to install the Smarter Mind Flayers component this time. I'd like to say that it was the worst decision ever, but evidently, the worst decision ever was to even add this part to the game.
These Ulitharids and mind flayers and anything else you wanna call them are incredibly unbalanced. Their psionic blast causes at least 80 damage to me every time. Maybe they're just getting lucky with that x % chance of hitting the right person in a mirror image every time, but it seems to go right through that as well; thanks for chunkifying Edwin from out of nowhere you ugly piece of deformed tentacles!
My party is about level 17/18 and it doesn't make sense to have this much trouble with a group of mind flayers. They literally chunkified at least 1 person every time I fought them. In the end, I decided to resort to cheese and using project image + skeleton warriors to take them out with no problem to show them who's boss. However, I wasn't looking to use cheesey tactics on these guys; but they just keep killing me all the time.
Maybe I'm forgeting something, but doesn't chaotic commands protect against their mind draining ability? Maybe it's just been so long since I've even had access to that spell (haven't had a cleric in my party for the past few games) that I'm forgetting something, but they just suck the brains out of every body there. And of course, the greenstone amulet was of no help.
What the hell is up with these guys? I would have thought that Weimer fixed these guys after that huge review that SoS wrote.

[Dace De'Briago]

My personal take is that they are powerful enough.

However, I would love to see a mod that lets high Intelligence creatures see through low-level illusion spells (as in PnP 2nd Ed). Would be quite fitting for a Ullitharid to see a mage trying to creep through his home...

Similarly, I'd LOVE beyond all belief for the high-level Wisdom abilities in PnP be implemented... spell immunities ahoy [img]smile.gif[/img]

Anyone care to mod this up?

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

CC is supposed to protect against psionic blast, not INT drain... and I'm glad. You can't really justify that with a spell. You're getting your brains eaten. That spell shields your mind from spells, not tentacles or whatever the hell they're using.

[Lord]

Originally posted by Dace De'Briago: However, I would love to see a mod that lets high Intelligence creatures see through low-level illusion spells (as in PnP 2nd Ed). Would be quite fitting for a Ullitharid to see a mage trying to creep through his home...

The improved ones can see through your invisibility and target you with their psionic blast even when you're invisible. I guess it's not considered a spell. They also use improved invisibility at the beginning of almost every encounter. They also try to dimension door away when they are nearly dead. I'm not where they are teleporting to, but I tend to get in a few extra swings at that time and take them out before they get away.
Either way, these guys are unbalanced. Way too unbalanced.

[Azred]

It is really difficult to properly balance highly-intelligent creatures, especially given the limitations of having to work within the rules of the game's engine. The other difficulty is that we couldn't accurately say what illithids would do--not only are they smarter than we are (they even smarter than I am [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] ) but they aren't human, thus we couldn't correctly guess their tactics.

Anyway....illithids are difficult enough without someone pumping them full of asiago, roquefort, and brie. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[SixOfSpades]

Originally posted by Lord: I would have thought that Weimer fixed these guys after that huge review that SoS wrote.

Weimer is willing to adjust (most things in) his own work, but he's wary of messing about with mod components written by other people. The Tougher Illithids were scripted by Gebhard Blucher, and it seems that he feels its current form is the way Illithids should be, and Weimer is honor-bound by that opinion.
Of course, my own opinion is that all Mind Flayers should have the ability to see right through Invisibility (they can detect all intelligent thought in their vicinity, so the only way to sneak up on them is if you yourself did not know you were doing so--the jury is still out on whether mindless creatures like Golems could escape their notice), and of course it's silly to say that their BioWare version was already tough enough, since any Warrior with a Potion of Invulnerability (and perhaps a Potion of Genius or two) could waltz through an entire lair of them alone. I simply disagree with their being able to use mental powers to manipulate physical reality (what the heck is this Project Force thing?), and that their powers are so damaging (so....Detonate does major damage to my entire party, no matter *where* they are? Oh good).
What I'd like to see is Illithids that fight by engaging their enemies in a one-on-one psionic duel: Those caught up in them are locked in place, using the "Mental Combat" icon (currently used only when Wizards summon Elementals), and the game compares the INT and WIS of both parties, and Slows them accordingly: The loser is Slowed more than the winner, and melee combat ensues. Those Illithids who have spellcasting abilities should be allowed to Dimension Door away if they know there's no hope, but if they succeed, the party should be awarded 75% of the EXP that they would have earned had they managed to kill the thing.

[ 07-09-2005, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

[Illumina Drathiran'ar]

Originally posted by SixOfSpades: Those Illithids who have spellcasting abilities should be allowed to Dimension Door away if they know there's no hope, but if they succeed, the party should be awarded 75% of the EXP that they would have earned had they managed to kill the thing.

I agree. You're supposed to get experience for dealing with an encouter, correct? If you've dealt with the mind flayer, you should get the experience. That's how it works in PnP.

[GoblinZ]

I rather preferred IWD2 Mind flayers. :/

Actually, i rather preferred IWD2 combat mechanics anyway. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
It´s way better balanced, and skips all the bulls with "instant death" abilities.
BG´s are just full of frustrating imprisonment liches, odd instant death spells, vampires, int drains, and experience based over-rebalancing of low level kuoa-toans (ToB).

I used to be able to slaughter the frogmen with a death spell, but what now?
Suddenly they all start rolling the miraculous saving dice of deathspell immunity?!
Ugghhh...

Luckily BG´s are more roleplay and less fight than IWDs... [img]tongue.gif[/img]


EDIT:
AHEM!
MORE TALK! LESS FIGHT!

[ 07-10-2005, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: GoblinZ ]

[Bithron]

I don't know why anyone would want to fight improved Illithid, I mean they're hard enough from before..... [img]smile.gif[/img]

BTW: I guess that you aint no newbie, are ye?

[Lord]

[quote]Originally posted by SixOfSpades:

Originally posted by Lord: [qb] What I'd like to see is Illithids that fight by engaging their enemies in a one-on-one psionic duel: Those caught up in them are locked in place, using the "Mental Combat" icon (currently used only when Wizards summon Elementals), and the game compares the INT and WIS of both parties, and Slows them accordingly: The loser is Slowed more than the winner, and melee combat ensues. Those Illithids who have spellcasting abilities should be allowed to Dimension Door away if they know there's no hope, but if they succeed, the party should be awarded 75% of the EXP that they would have earned had they managed to kill the thing.

That would be a good method. However, what it does is that it stops the character from fighting any of the other illithid that may be attacking. This could be a problem if the character is soloing...instead of being able to turn around to take a swing at an illithid, you're stuck there and can't do a think about it. So I guess this mental combat shouldn't last for anymore than 1 round regardless of your intelligence.
The part about getting XP before they dimension door away is a good idea. And those attacks that they have...jeez what's up with that?