America & peace

when he announced airsrikes President bush said "we're a peaceful nation"

but since the second world war america has bombed these nations:

China 1945-46,1950-53
Korea 1950-53
Guatamala 1954,1967-69
Indonesia 1958
cuba 1959-60
belgian congo 1964
peru 1965
laos 1964-73
vietnam 1961-73
cambodia 1969-70
grenada 1983
libya 1986
el salvador 1980's
nicuragua 1980's
panama 1989
iraq 1991-99
bosnia 1995
suda 1998
yugoslavia 1999

is this really a peaceful nation?, can any of these bombings be justifed?

president bush looks rather hypocritical when he says "a nation bult on fundamental values that rejects hate,rejects violence,rejects murders and rejects evil" as rather the oppisite would seem to be the case from first glance at this list of bombings.


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In nomine Imperatis, guard our armour and our gaze; lubricate our projectile weapons that they do not jam. Bless and brighten the beams of our lasers; fiat lux in tenebris.
He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium to whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day.

[Yorick]

Look at the contexts. The policies and actions of each of the bombed countries.

It's like calling a policeman a criminal because he/she shoots someone on his watch.

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[Ryanamur]

There's always been a dicotomy between the founding principles of countries in the Western Civilization and the way they conduct international politics.

In the interior, our policies are based on "justice", "morality", "freedom", "understading" etc.

But, when you come to international politics, there's unfortunately only one factor that's used to justify actions: the prime interest of the State (being the country undertaking the action). Not morality.

America is not a peacefull nation when it comes to international politics. It was up until the Great War then, it fell back into isolationism until WWII. After that, the USA has been a belligerent nation who has brought peace to our civilization as well as sparked many conflicts (though most of them as a side effect of policies). So, don't critized their actions too much, because wouldn't had been for the USA, our world would be much less pleasant than it is now. Especially for folks living in Europe, Africa and Asia.

Let Bush live in his delusions. Cherish the world that he and his predecessors have helped protect and shape.

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I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Dramnek_Ulk: when he announced airsrikes President bush said "we're a peaceful nation" but since the second world war america has bombed these nations: China 1945-46,1950-53 Korea 1950-53 Guatamala 1954,1967-69 Indonesia 1958 cuba 1959-60 belgian congo 1964 peru 1965 laos 1964-73 vietnam 1961-73 cambodia 1969-70 grenada 1983 libya 1986 el salvador 1980's nicuragua 1980's panama 1989 iraq 1991-99 bosnia 1995 suda 1998 yugoslavia 1999 is this really a peaceful nation?, can any of these bombings be justifed? president bush looks rather hypocritical when he says "a nation bult on fundamental values that rejects hate,rejects violence,rejects murders and rejects evil" as rather the oppisite would seem to be the case from first glance at this list of bombings.

There's also been a murder in every state in the US, in every year for who know's how long. Are we also a nation of murderers?

Do you have a true understanding of the cause for these bombings you listed? I can honestly say I don't know about all of them. Some of them are obvious, some not so obvious. I would be interested in hearing a synopsis of each event before you attach them, as evidence, to such a statement. If you don't know specifics about each event, then you're just listing meaningless factoids.

People who defend themselves, their families, and their friends aren't by nature violent, and neither are nations. Unfortunately, sometimes people must resort to violence to protect life itself. It's certainly not a "pretty" thought, but it's realistic.

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[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: America is not a peacefull nation when it comes to international politics. It was up until the Great War then, it fell back into isolationism until WWII. After that, the USA has been a belligerent nation who has brought peace to our civilization as well as sparked many conflicts (though most of them as a side effect of policies). So, don't critized their actions too much, because wouldn't had been for the USA, our world would be much less pleasant than it is now. Especially for folks living in Europe, Africa and Asia.

I don't believe the US can be categorised as "belligerent". If anything, the US is reactionary. In almost every event involving military action in the last century, the US waited until it was almost too late to do anything. Even then we want to operate under the UN or someother international cause because we don't want to be seen as starting "anything". This has caused US many problems both at home and abroad over the years.

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[This message has been edited by Ronn_Bman (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I don't believe the US can be categorised as "belligerent". If anything, the US is reactionary. In almost every event involving military action in the last century, the US waited until it was almost too late to do anything. Even then we want to operate under the UN or someother international cause because we don't want to be seen as starting "anything". This has caused US many problems both at home and abroad over the years.

Again, Ronn, we can debate until the sun sets and not come to an agreement. I understand and respect your views but I don't share them. The US will only operate under the UN when it satisfies their own interests (just like any other nation on this Earth). In my views, the USA seems to always jump to the gun way to early to solve their problem. That's my opinion. Is it right, is it wrong, who knows! The important thing is to realise that if the USA didn't do the things that it did, our world would be much different... and probably not in a good way (especially during the Cold War).

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I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-23-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Ryanamur (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I don't believe the US can be categorised as "belligerent". If anything, the US is reactionary. In almost every event involving military action in the last century, the US waited until it was almost too late to do anything. Even then we want to operate under the UN or someother international cause because we don't want to be seen as starting "anything". This has caused US many problems both at home and abroad over the years.

As an Australian I'd have to agree with you Ronn.



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[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Ryanamur: Again, Ronn, we can debate until the sun sets and not come to an agreement. I understand and respect your views but I don't share them. The US will only operate under the UN when it satisfies their own interests (just like any other nation on this Earth). In my views, the USA seems to always jump to the gun way to early to solve their problem. That's my opinion. Is it right, is it wrong, who knows! The important thing is to realise that if the USA didn't do the things that it did, our world would be much different... and probably not in a good way (especially during the Cold War).

I absolutely agree with the last part of your statement

You and I aren't "that" far apart on most things. I think the results and endgame scenarios we see are much same; it's just how we get to our conclusions that messes up our complete agreement...lol

BTW, saw your post about exams coming up! Good Luck and.........

Get off this board and study so you can graduate and get a good job and buy your wife that house she wants!


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[Ryanamur]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: I absolutely agree with the last part of your statement You and I aren't "that" far apart on most things. I think the results and endgame scenarios we see are much same; it's just how we get to our conclusions that messes up our complete agreement...lol BTW, saw your post about exams coming up! Good Luck and......... Get off this board and study so you can graduate and get a good job and buy your wife that house she wants!

I said it before and I'll say it again. If we were to be living close to one another, I have a feeling we'd be good friends. Mind you it's not your fault if you just can't see it!

I know I should be off this board. I just can't help it... it's too much fun and I enjoy spending time with you guys and gals .

I can handle exams. I'm more worried about writting two 15 pages essays in two weeks. Well, I guess if I did three 15 pagers in one week for my BA, I sure can do two in 2 weeks for a certificate.

I'm doing more out of enjoyment than necessity . Though I strive to keep above a 3.5 GPA. Getting the certificate is definitely not a question of life and death for me... though it would help in getting that house my wife and I want

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I'm the Wanderer without a clan... I bring justice without favorism. Though you may not agree with it, my judgement is final... and inconsequential

From Americas polices it would seem that it stands for democracy at home, and dictatorship aboard, america has had no qualms about overthrowing goverments to install a dictator friendly to them.The USA government supported Noriaga in Panama then bombed it when he started drug running, they supported Osama bin laden in Afghanistan, then he turned on them and they bomb him now and they supported Pinochet in Chile. American and British companies supplied arms to Saddam Hussein, which he used against them in the gulf war and upon innocents. They supported the dictator Shah of Iran. ANY country that has supported dictators cannot be said to stand for freedom and justice when they have so blatantly allowed supported others in the abuse of what they supposedly stand for.

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In nomine Imperatis, guard our armour and our gaze; lubricate our projectile weapons that they do not jam. Bless and brighten the beams of our lasers; fiat lux in tenebris.
He is the Master of Mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the Imperium to whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day.

[This message has been edited by Dramnek_Ulk (edited 10-23-2001).]