What are the best proficiencies to take?

[Aerich]

Lvl 9 is probably the "best" level for dualing in the sense that it almost maximizes the fighter benefits (HP, proficiencies) while only taking 250 000 XP.

Note that getting to 10th lvl druid only requires 125 000 XP - as dual classing goes by level, 375 000 XP gives you a lvl 9/10 fighter druid and the same amount of XP gives a lvl 12 druid. Ask yourself if 9 fighter levels are worth 2 druid levels...

I have few quibbles with the proficiencies suggested above for your characters. However, I would be reluctant to give 2 PP in Axe (slashing damage) to a paladin with the paladin's obvious need for 2 PP in longsword (likewise slashing damage). Why take Axe just to avoid switching a shield when the paladin can take slings? The ill/thief, fighter, and bard can all use bows, although one should use crossbows.

[krunchyfrogg]

Thrown axes are piercing though.

[ister]

Originally posted by Aerich: I have few quibbles with the proficiencies suggested above for your characters. However, I would be reluctant to give 2 PP in Axe (slashing damage) to a paladin with the paladin's obvious need for 2 PP in longsword (likewise slashing damage). Why take Axe just to avoid switching a shield when the paladin can take slings? The ill/thief, fighter, and bard can all use bows, although one should use crossbows.

The paladin doesn't need the 2 in large swords until he's level 12 or so on even on core difficulty. So there is plenty of time to get him 2 stars in that proficiency later on. What the paladin needs is a missile weapon of some sort, and a crushing weapon of some sort. (Both of these are needed before you can double up in a third weapon at level 6.) The problem with choosing slings is the F/C and F-D will both be taking missile weapons. You'll be waiting a long time for a third magical sling, and in the long run I don't know of three really good slings, and magical sling ammunition isn't so overabundent to supply 2 slings very easily.

Now the druid could use darts, and until level 7 I think that choice is more powerful. (i.e., P with sling, F/C with sling, F-D with darts is better than P with axes, F/C with sling, F-D with sling). But after level 7 the extra attacks count against the slings, and the second choice is clearly superior.

I think you're really arguing your first point - have the paladin take a crossbow or bow and switch out with a shield when the bad guys close after one or two shots. This is clearly stronger than even the throwing axe and 2 stars. However, I find it cheesy and from an role playing point of view it's a little weird. Plus it's a lot of trouble to keep switching.

Of course the true powergamer should dismiss these concerns as being irrelevent. [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: Realized I didn't make any suggestion. I would not start the paladin with large swords and axes. I'd start him with axes and hammers (or other unused crushing weapon) and add large swords at levels 3 and 6.

[ 09-21-2005, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: ister ]

[NobleNick]

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg: If I restart, what's a good level to dual class at?

Depends on what you want to do with him. The level by level list of sweet spots is nice; but if you are doing all of IWD/HoW/TotLM, then your optimum DC points for the F/D collapse (IMHO) to essentially 2 choices:

1.) Using the Druid primarily as a spellcaster --> DC at F(9)

This first choice gets you very high HP. In fact, My DC F(9)/D is easily the highest HP character in the group. It also lets your Druid side develop very well: I am past Druid(17). This character suffers a bit on the front line, though. Could be because I maximized his STR instead of his DEX (big mistake). Because I was looking for this character to hold his own on the front line, I am a bit disappointed in the build. I have thoroughly enjoyed the extremely useful Druid spells, though; and, if you are looking for a tough spellcaster (not a tank), this character rocks. But I repeat, if you want to use the shapeshifting occasionally, max DEX to give this character some staying power on the front line.

2.) Using the Druid primarily as a melee artist --> DC at F(12) or F(13)

The second choice is for a character useful on the front line, with spell use a secondary concern. The extra 4 THAC0 and extra 1/2 ApR that he gets (over an F{9}/D ) while shapeshifted should be a real boon. This is what I am building for my newest Power Party. This guy is a late bloomer: I would suggest maybe DC at F(12) if you want a lot of play out of the finished character, are on Normal difficulty, and and are not doing TotLM. Keep rolling until you can max DEX, CON and STR (in that order of importance); bu STR can be less than max if you have the right STR spells and potions.

Hope you found this interesting.

--------------------
What's a party,
without a song?
Bards ROCK!
Party On!!


[ 09-23-2005, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

[Aerich]

Originally posted by ister: quote: Originally posted by Aerich: I have few quibbles with the proficiencies suggested above for your characters. However, I would be reluctant to give 2 PP in Axe (slashing damage) to a paladin with the paladin's obvious need for 2 PP in longsword (likewise slashing damage). Why take Axe just to avoid switching a shield when the paladin can take slings? The ill/thief, fighter, and bard can all use bows, although one should use crossbows.

The paladin doesn't need the 2 in large swords until he's level 12 or so on even on core difficulty. So there is plenty of time to get him 2 stars in that proficiency later on. What the paladin needs is a missile weapon of some sort, and a crushing weapon of some sort. (Both of these are needed before you can double up in a third weapon at level 6.) The problem with choosing slings is the F/C and F-D will both be taking missile weapons. You'll be waiting a long time for a third magical sling, and in the long run I don't know of three really good slings, and magical sling ammunition isn't so overabundent to supply 2 slings very easily.

Now the druid could use darts, and until level 7 I think that choice is more powerful. (i.e., P with sling, F/C with sling, F-D with darts is better than P with axes, F/C with sling, F-D with sling). But after level 7 the extra attacks count against the slings, and the second choice is clearly superior.

I think you're really arguing your first point - have the paladin take a crossbow or bow and switch out with a shield when the bad guys close after one or two shots. This is clearly stronger than even the throwing axe and 2 stars. However, I find it cheesy and from an role playing point of view it's a little weird. Plus it's a lot of trouble to keep switching.

Of course the true powergamer should dismiss these concerns as being irrelevent. [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: Realized I didn't make any suggestion. I would not start the paladin with large swords and axes. I'd start him with axes and hammers (or other unused crushing weapon) and add large swords at levels 3 and 6. [/QUOTE]Good point re: too many slings and not enough bows. However, there are enough good slings to go around, and it gets to the point where a cleric or druid should not be using many missiles anyway. One thing I've done with some success is use a 2nd lvl cleric slot or three on the magical hammer spell (Spiritual Hammer?). Druids should be firing away with sunscorch and alicorn lance. Btw, the shopkeeper in the severed hand sells unlimited +2 slingstones.

I often start a paladin with a ranged weapon and crushing weapon, add a 2-hander (greatsword), then go to longsword. It's hardly worth adding a shield before Dragon's Eye anyway.

[krunchyfrogg]

Well, my party composition has changed a tiny bit. I've got this so far:


Human Paladin
Half-Elf Bard
Gnome Ftr/Illusionist
Half-Elf Ftr/Druid
Dwarf Ftr/Cleric
Elf Ftr/Thief