Pen, Paper and Dice D&D--please help...

[Enwareth]

To make this brief and the reading easier:
-I was raised w/2nd ed., playing what I think is 3rd on the computer
-I was taught never use pen on the record sheet
-I've studied my DM (my dad) and his manuals
-I don't have any manuals of my own, I use his
-Thurs. I found one of my friends likes/wants to play (during Study Hall)
-He's only played once(a learning session for 3rd ed)
-I'm DM-ing--never done it before, but as I said before.....
-I want to learn 3rd and am moving towards getting some dice & manuals
-So far, it's just him in the party, we're looking for more people
-We printed char/rec sheets from the internet and found a dice generator
-I have no problem w/him filling out his looks, class, alignment, etc
-I do have a problem w/him filling out his stats so quickly. He's a human fighter
-He wrote that stuff in pen
-He wrote down rapier as his starting weapon (I didn't like that)
-I like to roll for the money you have @ the beginning of the game
-I only like to give out the essentials (clothes, boots, pack) first
-and the starting money buys armor, weapons, misc equip
-also, this gives the char a chance to do work around town for XP and money (IMO, it's more fun this way)
-He refuses to abide, I've tried explaining. He doesn't understand that there is no party, campaign or manuals...If others join, will they think its fair? (I wouldn't, cuz there wasn't a guide to say whether or not he could have that weapon or those skills or stats or whatever)
-We've decided on playing 2nd ed, but I still think it'd be fun to learn 3rd
***Mainly, because he's so stubborn, I don't really feel like playing anymore...
What do I do?
!!!SORRY ITS NOT AS BRIEF AS I HOPED!!!

[ 02-05-2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Enwareth ]

[philip]

Originally posted by Enwareth: ***Mainly, because he's so stubborn, I don't really feel like playing anymore...

and you're not stubborn at all either [img]tongue.gif[/img] Just take a bit of what both of you want and both make a compromise. It's not the DM who decides on everything and if you do something like no weapons at the start you better tell that before you let players build the characters.

[Larry_OHF]

I am learning right now over in our RPG forum on how to be a good DM with a game I am running. It has been going on for three years and I am still learning stuff.

As Phillip said, lay off so many legalities.
Have some fun, man!
Being a stubborn mule will never get you anywhere as a DM.

Everybody has their style and their way of doing things. In the end, you have the final say, but don't be overbearing.

I hope some more experienced DMs than me will answer this question for you.

[ 02-05-2005, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Larry_OHF ]

[Luvian]

I've been a DM mostly.

In my opinion, to be a good do DM has to be able to read his players and find out what it is they would like.

I'm not saying giving them everything they want. I mean do they want a dungeon crawl, a political campaign, humor, serious?

Did you read the player's handbook? Your friend should be able to start out with around 100 gold or so. With that he shouldn't have a problem buying a rapier. That is unless you have specific story reasopn to limit his stuff...

I'd say gorrow your father's book if you can, or buy some, this will really help.

There is nothing wrong with a single player campaign. I DMed one for my cousin for about 3 years, and it was really fun.

When you have only one player, he can become the special hero of prophecy, but if you have a group you have to balance out the heroic stuff between them. The only downside is that he's alone so it's harder to guess puzzles of find good decision.

I used to control an npc or two as party members to add more discusion, if you have a one player campaign it's important you create a strong cast of characters, in my opinion.

[Enwareth]

Thanks, all of this is really helpful. And, now that I think about it, I guess I am being overbearing.
I was going to start him off with a weapon and simple leather armor, what ticked me off was...he just put it down, no questions about anything or about how I would like to start off the game or how I play. Since he's only played once, I was hoping to go a bit slow at starting everything off--especially since I've no experience
DM-ing and no manuals, besides my dad's.

When he first played, he was the only character, no npc's in his party...just him. He said it wasn't fun. When I first learned I played w/my dad (me being the only party member) and my experience was fun. But, then again, our other friend was teaching him...and made a lizardman sit on his foot while 2 others attacked him....

[VulcanRider]

Would your dad be willing to run a game or two for the both of you? Also, have you talked to your dad about his DM'ing methods? Maybe you can run a solo game with your dad as a player, so he can help you practice being the DM.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by VulcanRider: Would your dad be willing to run a game or two for the both of you? Also, have you talked to your dad about his DM'ing methods? Maybe you can run a solo game with your dad as a player, so he can help you practice being the DM.

You beat me to the punch, VulcanRider. I was going to suggest the same thing.

Enwareth - VulcanRider and I learned to play PnP AD&D at the same time from a good friend of ours. After playing for awhile, we both wanted to try our hand at being a DM, so we took turns "sitting in" on a game without playing. Instead, we sat with the DM and he showed us some of his "tricks of the trade".

I also agree with Luvian and Larry that you don't want to be too overbearing. Unless there is a specific reason you don't want your friend's fighter to have a rapier, then allow him to have it. However, you DO need to explain to him that he can't just open the manual and pick out whatever equipment he wants. Give him specific amount of gold to start with and tell him he has to "pay" for any equipment his character gets. That way, he won't come to a game and suddenly have a Bag of Holding full of magical items and weapons he decided to give to himself (we had this happen with one of the players in our group). It will also give you lots of opportunities to send him on jobs around town to earn more money, or to go on short adventures that are relatively easy, yet rewards him with enough gold to purchase better items when he returns to town.

The best advice I can give you is - BE STINGY WITH MAGIC ITEMS!!! Yeah, every player wants to be armed to the teeth with magical items, weapons and armor - but games where they really have to work for the magic they get makes the items much more rewarding. You also will have a player getting "bored" with items that are "only +1" when they are used to getting better stuff. On the other hand, I STILL remember the very first +1 weapon my original character got. Man, was I THRILLED! And the mage in our party actually got a +2 dagger in the same dungeon. We thought we were in high cotton after that game.

The bottom line is for you and the player (or players) to HAVE FUN! You do need to be restrictive on some things, but you also have to be flexible and allow the players to have some input too. Talk about what each of you wants from the game and decide what rules you should establish to accomplish this.

And I definitely agree that you should get your dad involved as an "assistant DM" or a player to help both of you learn more about the game as you begin your campaign.

[Enwareth]

Originally posted by VulcanRider: Would your dad be willing to run a game or two for the both of you? Also, have you talked to your dad about his DM'ing methods? Maybe you can run a solo game with your dad as a player, so he can help you practice being the DM.

I like the idea (and appreciate the suggestions) of my dad running a game for us...except that my friends and I have tight schedules and really would only be able to play during our two study halls together. My dad and I constantly talk about D&D (cuz we're big geeks), and he's told me about his experiences with other DM's. And, I really love the idea of DM-ing for my dad, I'll ask him! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Thanks, so much!

PS--Everyone who helps me with this: I really appreciate the replies and take all suggestions to heart!

[philip]

Also if players think of a lot of stupid ideas and then check if you're going to give away hints or something let them do anything they want and make sort of a rule everything you say will happen. That's a lot of fun too.

I have a lot of great memories of idiotic actions I did with my first character but I didn't do it as often after I was allowed to do anything. But it works well and you can get a real humourous adventure if you like that.

For example I had to go on a ship recently and instead of just walking in (which would have been ok too) we decided to open a chest and get on board with the cargo. Till we wanted to get out and noticed we were the chest at the bottom and had a lot of other chests on top of the one we were in

[Enwareth]

From Cerek:

However, you DO need to explain to him that he can't just open the manual and pick out whatever equipment he wants. Give him specific amount of gold to start with and tell him he has to "pay" for any equipment his character gets. That way, he won't come to a game and suddenly have a Bag of Holding full of magical items and weapons he decided to give to himself (we had this happen with one of the players in our group). It will also give you lots of opportunities to send him on jobs around town to earn more money, or to go on short adventures that are relatively easy, yet rewards him with enough gold to purchase better items when he returns to town. The best advice I can give you is - BE STINGY WITH MAGIC ITEMS!!! You also will have a player getting "bored" with items that are "only +1" when they are used to getting better stuff. The bottom line is for you and the player (or players) to HAVE FUN! You do need to be restrictive on some things, but you also have to be flexible and allow the players to have some input too. Talk about what each of you wants from the game and decide what rules you should establish to accomplish this.

The thing is:
I'm afraid of going back into school monday, because he probably did borrow a book, open it up and pick anything and everything he wanted...and I know you can't do that, but I don't understand why he thinks he can...
In the campaigns my dad has run with me, I had to roll for the starting money and pick what I thought I needed, then I would go to a bulletin board (which were ever-present in towns) and find a "job" to earn money/XP.
I want him to have fun, but I don't want him to have +5 magical weapons, armor and equipment (@ Level 1) while going up against goblins or orcs, when that equipment would be better off facing, I don't know(really I don't)...a giant?