Hatred for US in Falluja

[Timber Loftis]

Since nobody has posted about the downed helicopter tragedy, I thought someone oughtta. It's kinda Current, and it is an Event.

Today's NY Times:
____________________________

An Iraqi City Looks Suspiciously at U.S. Good-Will Gestures
By DEXTER FILKINS

Published: November 3, 2003


FALLUJA, Iraq, Nov. 3 — In the epicenter of anti-American hatred, even the most generous of gestures is viewed with a suspicious eye.

The day after 16 American servicemen died when their helicopter was shot out of the sky here, a group of American soldiers tossed handfuls of candy from their Humvees to the Iraqi children who lined the road.

"Don't touch it, don't touch it!" the Iraqi children squealed. "It's poison from the Americans. It will kill you."

The Humvees rumbled past, and the candy stayed in the dirt.

Loathing for the American occupiers of Iraq looms everywhere in this hardscrabble city west of Baghdad. Hatred laces the conversations. It hangs from the walls. It burns in the minds of children. Like nowhere else in Iraq, Falluja bristles with a desire to confront the American soldiers, to kill them, and to celebrate when they fall.

For the American soldiers trying to pacify this stronghold of the ousted Iraqi president Saddam Hussein, the road seems long and hard.

"These people hate the Americans," said Specialist Emily Donaghy, who lives behind the high walls of an American base outside of town. "It's going to take generation after generation before they realize what America has done for them."

Today, American soldiers picked over the scene of the most dramatic demonstration yet of the locals' passion; the shooting down, with a shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile, of an American helicopter that was loaded with soldiers on their way to holidays in the United States.

The downing of the helicopter, which crashed and burned in a field just outside of town, prompted celebrations from many of the locals here. While anti-American feeling does not extend to everyone in Falluja, American soldiers here have found a handful of allies to work with. It is difficult here to find anyone willing to express anything but deeply negative feelings for the presence of Americans.

Even a group of American-trained Iraqi police officers, whom American officials hope will help crack down on the insurgents, could not bring themselves to say anything positive.

"We want them out of here," said an Iraqi officer who gave only one name, Ahmed. Mr. Ahmed said he and his colleagues were regularly threatened by local Iraqis for working closely with the Americans, but he said his detractors had it all wrong.

"I don't work with the Americans, I don't take orders from them," Mr. Ahmed said. "I am doing this for my country."

Falluja, a city of about 100,000 people, lies in the heart of what is known as the Sunni Triangle, an area stretching west and north of Baghdad that comprised the foundation of support for Mr. Hussein. It is here, in cities like Falluja, where the overwhelming majority of attacks on American soldiers are carried out.

In other parts of the country, in the north and in the south, Iraqis often welcome the Americans as their liberators, and as their tutors in fostering democratic rule.

In places like Falluja, the locals often had a direct stake in Mr. Hussein's rule, getting preferential treatment in hiring, and earning larger salaries.

One of those was Saad Hamid, who operates a sidewalk tea stand in downtown Falluja. Until the war, Mr. Hamid worked in an armaments factory in Baghdad, earning almost $1,000 a month — an unheard of salary in this country. Then the Americans arrived, and Mr. Hamid lost his job. Today, he pours glasses of tea for about pennies a glass.

Mr. Hamid remains a faithful follower of the deposed Iraqi leader. To demonstrate for an American visitor, he held up two pieces of Iraqi currency, the old Iraqi note, with a picture of Mr. Hussein, and the new one issued since the Americans took over, which contains no such figure.

"The old currency is better," Mr. Hamid said, pointing to the face of Mr. Hussein, "because Saddam is on it."

A day after the downing of the helicopter, a company of American soldiers stood guard over the site as a huge crane lifted the wreckage from the ground and loaded it into trucks.

"We are gathering up all the pieces," Capt. Scott Kirkpatrick said.

Just down the road from the crash site, a crowd of Iraqi young men and boys gathered to watch. Some of them carried small pieces of wreckage from the crash.

One of the men in the crowd was Khalid Abdullah Jassem. Like the others in the crowd, Mr. Jassem exulted over the crash of the American helicopter, yet at least one of the reasons he gave for his feelings seemed odd.

Whenever the Chinook helicopters flew overhead, Mr. Jassem said, the American soldier stationed at the back of the helicopter always hung his feet out of the back door — a sign of disrespect in the Muslim world.

Informed that American soldiers manning the gun at the rear of Chinook helicopters usually sat there regardless of the country, Mr. Jassem was undeterred.

"I didn't liked Saddam, but he was better than the Americans," he said.

For all the intensity of the guerrilla war being fought here, the Americans show no signs of being deterred. Over the weekend, the office of Falluja's American-backed mayor was attacked eight times, the mayor was beaten up, and the American liaison office there was destroyed.

Capt. Ryan Huston, who spent two sleepless nights defending the police station, seemed hardly bothered by the relentless attacks.

"They are trying to take over this town and turn into a stronghold," Capt. Huston said. "And we are not going to let them do it."

[ 11-03-2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Skunk]

"One of the men in the crowd was Khalid Abdullah Jassem. Like the others in the crowd, Mr. Jassem exulted over the crash of the American helicopter, yet at least one of the reasons he gave for his feelings seemed odd.

Whenever the Chinook helicopters flew overhead, Mr. Jassem said, the American soldier stationed at the back of the helicopter always hung his feet out of the back door — a sign of disrespect in the Muslim world.

Informed that American soldiers manning the gun at the rear of Chinook helicopters usually sat there regardless of the country, Mr. Jassem was undeterred.


The reason seemed odd??? This must be the only journalist in the world who missed the Iraqi's hitting the torn-down statue of Saddam with their shoes!

[ 11-03-2003, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Skunk ]

[Timber Loftis]

[img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Yeah, that's interesting. In Iraq I bet looking up to see boot soles makes them feel like the soldiers on board are all sticking the big finger at the whole country. [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Cultural differences are such fun, aren't they? Too bad people had to die for it.

Let me ask you this, Skunk. If I stuck my middle finger out at a bus driver in traffic (as I often do), and he shot a TOW missile at my car for it, would you support the decision? An insult is enough to kill for? If they really feel that way, I have a ton of shoes to throw at them.

[Dundee Slaytern]

That comparison is a bit simplistic though... since (unless I am reading this wrong) I believe the "leg" incident was not the direct cause of the attack, but something that adds on to their irritation. Sort of like piling feathers onto a camel's back.

To expand on your comparison, the bus driver might have more justification (but not necessarily legal of course) to shoot that TOW missile if you had in addition,

Stormed his apartment, kicked out the oppressive landlord and imposed your own rules despite knowing virtually the whole apartment doesn't like you and that the Mayor did not approve this, imposed house arrest or detain some of his neighbours, made him lose his previous job, etc... then the comparison would fit better, although it is still simplistic in my opinion.

[Chewbacca]

Screw shoe insults, those are small change in light of other incidents. Fallujah is the place where 16 unarmed Iraqi civilians* were shot by U.S. troops during a demonstration back at the beginning of the end of major combat operations. Just one of a few "colateral damage" incidents to happen in and around Fallujah.


*though women and children were among the dead in that incident, who knows if all of them were actually civilians, regardless those killed were unarmed. Allegedly someone in the crowd started firing a gun at the troops and so they shot back at everyone.

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: That comparison is a bit simplistic though... since (unless I am reading this wrong) I believe the "leg" incident was not the direct cause of the attack, but something that adds on to their irritation. Sort of like piling feathers onto a camel's back. To expand on your comparison, the bus driver might have more justification (but not necessarily legal of course) to shoot that TOW missile if you had in addition, Stormed his apartment, kicked out the oppressive landlord and imposed your own rules despite knowing virtually the whole apartment doesn't like you and that the Mayor did not approve this, imposed house arrest or detain some of his neighbours, made him lose his previous job, etc... then the comparison would fit better, although it is still simplistic in my opinion.

That's exactly what I meant. It was an action that 'adds insult to injury'

[Davros]

Still, culturally that seems to explain Baghdad Bob's (ie the Information Minister) enthusiastic warcry of "We will welcome them(the Americans) with bullets and shoes".

I had always wondered what sort of drugs he was on when he said that, but now the reasoning appears

[Donut]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Yeah, that's interesting. In Iraq I bet looking up to see boot soles makes them feel like the soldiers on board are all sticking the big finger at the whole country. [img]graemlins/biglaugh.gif[/img] Cultural differences are such fun, aren't they? Too bad people had to die for it. Let me ask you this, Skunk. If I stuck my middle finger out at a bus driver in traffic (as I often do), and he shot a TOW missile at my car for it, would you support the decision? An insult is enough to kill for? If they really feel that way, I have a ton of shoes to throw at them.

I think you're missing the point Timber. The person firing the missile will still fire missiles. You need to win the hearts and minds of the ordinary Iraqis, they are the only ones who can stop the killing.

Learning those small cultural differences is what will win them over.

[Timber Loftis]

Dundee and Skunk: agreed that adding insult to injury is a more appropriate analogy.

Chewie: I forgot this was where that incident occurred. Thanks for reminding me. However, no matter how cynical I am, I do believe there were shots fired in that instance and I would not have the nerve to say "allegedly" myself. While it was a fiasco that demonstrated our troops fear and lack of composure at the time, I will not believe the US military fired on a crowd of civilians just for the heck of it -- especially since I've seen too many instances of peaceful, but loud, protest in Iraq on the news that were not bothered at all my the forces.

Donut, of course I agree with your ongoing "hearts and minds" theme, and I hope my post reflected that. Plus it's such a cool British pithy phrase: "hearts and minds." Sticks with you, doesn't it? [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[Chewbacca]

Good point T.L., about my use of the word allegedly. I meant it in the context that no guns were found on those who were killed. I forget the exact details of the incident and I am too lazy to dig up an old article at the moment, so perhaps I serve myself well to add IIRC to my entire previous statement and replace the word allegedly with the phrase 'as reported'.