Design a Nazgul

[Aragorn1]

I knew men were corrupted quicker, so that would explain it. It said they appeared at "about that time", so the rings were probably given to the nine then and with constant use there corruption turned them to wraiths shortly after.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by Iron Greasel: I think Speedy's referring to those big black birds or whatever they were the Nazgul flew with.

If I'm not mistaken, "those big black birds" are actually the Nazgul. The Witch King and his 8 comrades were "officially" called RingWraiths in the trilogy. They are not referred to as "Nazgul" until they are riding the flying mounts. When the went looking for Frodo in the Shire, they were simply referred to as Black Riders and RingWraiths.

Also, when the Eowyn steps between the Witch King and Theoden, the Witch King (who has just told his mount to feast on Theoden's flesh) warns Eowyn to "never get between a nazgul and it's prey".

It's been a long time since I read any of the books, so I could be wrong. But I'm fairly certain the nazgul were actually the winged mounts used by the RingWraiths. The confusion comes from the fact that - every time they appeared - those on the ground pointed up in horror and shouted "Nazgul" - so it is hard to tell if they are referring to the beast, the rider or both. But since the riders themselves would often be hard to see from the ground, it is reasonable to assume they were talking about the beast itself and knew that it carried a RingWraith as it's rider.

[Cerek]

Originally posted by TheGodThatFailed: Six - You said the Nazgul are undead, i didn't think they were. I may be wrong, but it says "They are neither living nor dead." Although i may have misunderstood, and that says they are undead. It may just have been me being dim again

Not trying to be a smarta$$ here, but "neither living nor dead" is pretty much the standard definition of any undead creature. This phrase has been used innumerable times in movies and books in both horror and fantasy genres.

Also, the 9 were known as RingWraiths, and wraiths are definitely considered undead in the AD&D-based games.

[ElfBane]

Originally posted by Cerek: quote: Originally posted by Iron Greasel: I think Speedy's referring to those big black birds or whatever they were the Nazgul flew with.

If I'm not mistaken, "those big black birds" are actually the Nazgul. The Witch King and his 8 comrades were "officially" called RingWraiths in the trilogy. They are not referred to as "Nazgul" until they are riding the flying mounts. When the went looking for Frodo in the Shire, they were simply referred to as Black Riders and RingWraiths.

Also, when the Eowyn steps between the Witch King and Theoden, the Witch King (who has just told his mount to feast on Theoden's flesh) warns Eowyn to "never get between a nazgul and it's prey".

It's been a long time since I read any of the books, so I could be wrong. But I'm fairly certain the nazgul were actually the winged mounts used by the RingWraiths. The confusion comes from the fact that - every time they appeared - those on the ground pointed up in horror and shouted "Nazgul" - so it is hard to tell if they are referring to the beast, the rider or both. But since the riders themselves would often be hard to see from the ground, it is reasonable to assume they were talking about the beast itself and knew that it carried a RingWraith as it's rider. [/QUOTE]Very interesting, I have never heard that take on the word nazgul. I thought they were just called fell beasts.

[dplax]

I'm sorry Cerek, but you are wrong about the meaning of the word Nazgul.

Nazgul = ringwraith = the Nine = the bearers of the nine rings = Ulairi.

They always were Nazgul. The creatures they ride starting in the Two Towers are the fell beasts.

From Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age:

"It is said that these were indeed the Ulairi, whom Sauron called the Nazgul, the Nine Ringwraiths..."

[Link]

The exact worthing the Witch King uses in "The Return of the King" is 'Do not come between the Nazgul and its prey'. While the difference between this sentence and yours isn't that great, Cerek, the main focus should be on what the Witch King said before turning his attention to Éowyn: 'Feast on his [=injured Théoden] flesh.'

This line of events suggests the Nazgul is, in fact, the beast the Witch King was sitting upon. I am inclined to believe Tolkien's work rather than Peter Jackson movie series, so I'd judge this as a cinematic flaw.

[Kestrel Daystar]

Yeah, and not to be a smarta$$ but the exact quote from the book is:

"Come not between a Nazgûl and its prey"

But in the movie, they are called the Nazgûl in the Fellowship:

Aragorn: "They are the Nazgûl"

Which he says to Frodo in Bree

--Kestrel--

[ 02-08-2005, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Kestrel Daystar ]

[Riftmaker]

You guys, Nazgûl are Ringwraiths, not those birdie things.

Nazgûl = Black Speech for "Ringwraith". If you don't believe me, go look it up.

[Kestrel Daystar]

Quite correct

From the back of the Silmarillion:

Ring-wraiths: The slaves of the Nine Rings of Men and chief servants of Sauron; also called Nazgûl and Úlairi.

--Kestrel--

[Link]

Riftmaker, the only one proposing the fellbeasts were the Nazgul was Cerek and he did so in a very careful way. My post was not backing him up, I was merely pointing at how the movie dealt with the particular situation Cerek mentioned in his post. That does not mean I think fellbeasts are Nazgul, on the contrary: reread the last line of my post to see my thoughts on that subject.

In general, I think there are very few people doubting about the nature of the Nazgul.