Do Barbaric Peoples Really Deserve Freedom?

[Timber Loftis]

March 31, 2004
5 U.S. Soldiers Are Killed in Bomb Attack West of Baghdad
By JOHN F. BURNS

BAGHDAD, Iraq, March 31 — In the deadliest day in weeks for coalition troops in Iraq, five American soldiers were killed today when a bomb exploded under their vehicle west of Baghdad today, the United States military said.

In a separate attack in Falluja, at least four non-Iraqis were killed and their bodies were beaten and burned, according to news agency reports. It was the single worst attack against non-military foreigners, whose nationalities were not immediately known, since the conflict began.

The attack on the American military vehicle occurred in Al Anbar province, a wellspring of resistance to occupation forces, said Sgt. James Oleen, a military spokesman in Baghdad. The military offered no further information on the incident.

Witnesses said the attack occurred in Malahma, 12 miles northwest of Falluja, The Associated Press reported.

In the other deadly attack, gunmen in Falluja attacked two civilian vehicles, killing their occupants and setting the cars on fire, The A.P. reported. Associated Press Television News captured images of a man beating a corpse with a metal pole and others dragging a second corpse down a street as crowds cheered, the news agency said.

After the attack on the foreigners this morning, residents told The A.P. that the burned cars contained weapons and that some of the bodies were dressed in flak jackets. The A.P. television network footage showed one American passport near a body and a United States Department of Defense identification card belonging to another man.

The series of deadly attacks on American troops and foreign civilians in the Sunni Triangle area of central Iraq, particularly around Falluja, and a similar spate of attacks in the northern oil city of Mosul, have raised doubts about the cautiously optimistic appraisal of American progress in the war that has been common among United States generals since the beginning of the year.

Military officials have said that the capture of Saddam Hussein on Dec. 13 and documents seized with him had allowed them to penetrate the cell structure of that part of the insurgency that sought to restore a "Saddamist" or Baathist government to Iraq, with the Sunni minority once again dominating the majority Shiites.

American generals have said that these breakthroughs had given them the upper hand in the battle against Saddam loyalists and created the conditions for the American occupation authority to move forward with confidence to the planned handover of sovereignty under an interim government on June 30 and to an elected government in January 2006.

At the same time, the generals have been saying that their main focus in the conflict has shifted to Islamic terrorists who they believe to have been responsible for many suicide bombings and other attacks on the Iraqi police, civilians and foreigners. These attacks, they say, have effectively carried the Iraqi conflict into a new landscape that makes the fighting here part of the worldwide war on terrorism.

But today's events at Falluja suggested that the war may not have changed as much as the generals have suggested

The fact that the attack on the civilian vehicles occurred in Falluja, an overwhelming Sunni city that is the most volatile stronghold of support for Mr. Hussein, and that it followed a 10-day offensive by United States marines aimed at gaining effective control of the city, suggested that the current war may, in practice, be an extension of the conflict that began last year.

In a modulation of their assessments in recent days, the generals had begun to say that there may be a merging of diehard loyalists to Mr. Hussein and Islamic militants, with the two groups at least loosely coordinating their attacks.

On Tuesday, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, spokesman for the American command, who had previously emphasized the growing role of Islamic terrorists in the conflict, said at a news conference that the military no longer considered the distinction between Saddam loyalists and militant Islamists to be so significant from the viewpoint of military operations.

"I'm not sure trying to over-classify these different groups is helpful," he said. "It might help somehow in the intelligence community, in terms of trying to find out where they come from and trying to find some trails onto them. But on the operations side we just call them targets."
__________________________________________________ _____

[Timber Loftis]

Seriously, this is a big one. Terrorist attacks in Iraq are one thing, but when this happens it is quite another story. This is barbarism by the public at large, acting en masse, against civilian contractors hired by the government to help rebuild their nation. It is a statement of the sympathies of Fallujah as a whole, and of their barbarism. Dragging bodies through the streets, hanging corpses from bridges -- these are things suited for the ignorance and intolerance and cruelty of the dark ages.

It makes me think ill of the people as a whole. It sparks prejudice in my gut against them all. Are they even worth trying help? Should we just abandon the middle eastern peoples to wallow in their ignorance and backwardness, and only visit when they piss us off, and then only long enough to slam the hammer of retribution on them?

It certainly sparks such sympathies in me -- much as I hate it. I don't want to be prejudiced against a peoples, and I dislike this crowd for inching me in that direction.
_______________________________________
Today's NY Times
5 G.I.'s and 4 Contractors Are Killed in Separate Attacks
By JEFFREY GETTLEMAN and JOHN F. BURNS

Published: March 31, 2004

FALLUJA, Iraq, March 31 — An enraged mob attacked a group of foreign contractors here today, shooting four people to death, burning their vehicles, dragging their bodies through the downtown streets and then hanging the charred corpses from a bridge.

Meanwhile, less than 15 miles away, in the same area of the increasingly violent Sunni Triangle, five marines were killed in one of the deadliest roadside bomb incidents for coalition troops in weeks. The marines were traveling through a dusty village along a supply route when the explosion ripped into their vehicles.

The steadily deteriorating security situation in the Falluja area, west of Baghdad, has become so dangerous that no American soldiers or Iraqi security staff responded to the attack against the contractors.

There are a number of police stations in Falluja and a base of more than 4,000 marines nearby. But even while the two vehicles burned, sending plumes of inky smoke over the closed shops of the city, there were no ambulances, no fire engines and no security.

Instead, Falluja's streets were thick with men and boys and chaos.

Boys with scarves over their faces hurled bricks into the burning vehicles. A group of men dragged one of the smoldering corpses into the street and ripped it apart. Someone then tied a chunk of flesh to a rock and tossed it over a telephone wire.

"Viva mujahadeen!" shouted Said Khalaf, a taxi driver. "Long live the resistance!"

Nearby, a boy no older than 10 put his foot on the head of a body and said: "Where is Bush? Let him come here and see this!"

Many people in the crowd said they felt as if they had won an important battle. Others said they thought that the contractors, who were driving in four-wheel drive trucks, were working for the Central Intelligence Agency.

"This is what these spies deserve," said Salam Aldulayme, a 28-year-old Falluja resident.

The nationalities of the contractors were not immediately available.

The attack on the American military vehicle occurred in Al Anbar province, a wellspring of resistance to occupation forces, said Sgt. James Oleen, a military spokesman in Baghdad. The military offered no further information on the incident.

Witnesses said the attack occurred in Malahma, 12 miles northwest of Falluja, The Associated Press reported.

After the attack in Falluja, residents told The A.P. that the burned cars contained weapons and that some of the bodies were dressed in flak jackets. The A.P. television network showed one American passport near a body and a United States Department of Defense identification card belonging to another man.

The series of deadly attacks on American troops and foreign civilians in the Sunni Triangle area of central Iraq, particularly around Falluja, and a similar spate of attacks in the northern oil city of Mosul, have raised doubts about the cautiously optimistic appraisal of American progress in the war that has been common among United States generals since the beginning of the year.

Military officials have said that the capture of Saddam Hussein on Dec. 13 and documents seized with him had allowed them to penetrate the cell structure of that part of the insurgency that sought to restore a "Saddamist" or Baathist government to Iraq, with the Sunni minority once again dominating the majority Shiites.

American generals have said that these breakthroughs had given them the upper hand in the battle against Saddam loyalists and created the conditions for the American occupation authority to move forward with confidence to the planned handover of sovereignty under an interim government on June 30 and to an elected government in January 2006.

At the same time, the generals have been saying that their main focus in the conflict has shifted to Islamic terrorists who they believe to have been responsible for many suicide bombings and other attacks on the Iraqi police, civilians and foreigners. These attacks, they say, have effectively carried the Iraqi conflict into a new landscape that makes the fighting here part of the worldwide war on terrorism.

But today's events at Falluja indicate that the war may not have changed as much as the generals have suggested.

The fact that the attack on the civilian vehicles occurred in Falluja, an overwhelming Sunni city that is the most volatile stronghold of support for Mr. Hussein, and that it followed a 10-day offensive by United States marines aimed at gaining effective control of the city, suggested that the current war may, in practice, be an extension of the conflict that began last year.

Capt. Chris Logan of the Marine Corps said today that the city was becoming "an area of greater concern."

He added: "This is one of those areas in Iraq that is definitely squirrely. The guerrillas in Falluja are testing us. They're testing our resolve."

In a modulation of their assessments in recent days, the generals had begun to say that there may be a merging of diehard loyalists to Mr. Hussein and Islamic militants, with the two groups at least loosely coordinating their attacks.

On Tuesday, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, spokesman for the American command, who had previously emphasized the growing role of Islamic terrorists in the conflict, said at a news conference that the military no longer considered the distinction between Saddam loyalists and militant Islamists to be so significant from the viewpoint of military operations.

"I'm not sure trying to over-classify these different groups is helpful," he said. "It might help somehow in the intelligence community, in terms of trying to find out where they come from and trying to find some trails onto them. But on the operations side we just call them targets."

Jeffrey Gettleman reported from Falluja for this article and John F. Burns reported from Baghdad.

[johnny]

We didn't understand them 1000 years ago, and nothing has changed since then. Did you really expect it to be one big happy family now that Saddam's gone ? I don't know about you, but i could see this coming from afar. And calling them barbaric is a feeling that's mutual, believe it or not.

[Larry_OHF]

I really do not know what to say to justify my feelings. I have deleted my post three times before subitting it. I wish I could say more.

[Stratos]

The gruesome clips on the news says it all, a perfect example of the evil mankind is capable of. Besides, for the foreign troops to leave is exactly what these people want.

[Timber Loftis]

I'm beginning to sympathize with Saddam. Maybe fear and tyranny is the only way to rule these people.

[pritchke]

Do Barbaric Peoples Really Deserve Freedom?

Nobody deserves the freedom they currently have. They currently must have unchecked freedoms to do these barbaric acts and get away with them.

[ 03-31-2004, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

[Skunk]

It's the result of the process of dehumanisation.

When you are used to seeing dead and burnt bodies of friends and loved ones; when your cities have crumbled under the weight of bombs, when there is no work and no food on the table, when bandits rule the night and foreign troops are controlling the little that's left of your lives during the day, it's not inconceivable that the part of humanity that should be appalled by such acts has also been burnt out.

This is a classic example of what temporary insanity looks like - and its our frankenstein.

[Oblivion437]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: I really do not know what to say to justify my feelings. I have deleted my post three times before subitting it. I wish I could say more.

I feel the exact same way.

[Sir Degrader]

Anti war protesters squawk when mosques are accidently bombed and civilians killed by mistake, then remain silent when mutilated US bodies are dragged through streets then hung up. How typically left wing. I bet none of them raised a fuss when Clinton bombed Serbia in 1998, only now that it's a republican in the white house. Shamefull.