Bigotry

[Grimslade]

You must live in a fanatical area, or with particularly fanatical people. My parents, and I myself, are RC, and I don't go pestering anybody about their lack of religion. It's up to them. I couldn't care less what they decide to believe in.

Maybe your family and friends have a different take on "spreading the word," because that kind of stuff doesn't happen in my neck of the woods.

Please don't go slamming religion because a few zealots piss you off. I'm sure they are just a fanatical minority.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by AliCat: Wynne, I agree with you, that that is the smart way of doing things! However, I do understand Ryndel's and Hunter's points, which is that unfortunately there are many people that impose a viewpoint on others before they ever get to know them and take them as individuals with brains of their own. Too many people let first impressions and dogma carry them through life... and unfortunately, they miss getting to know some really neat people. AliCat

This is a great point, AliCat.

When I went away to college, I saw this big guy that lived in my dorm that just scared the living daylights outta me. He weighed about 300lbs, had loooong stringy blonde hair (along with a thigh goatee). But the scariest thing about him were his clothes. He wore a leather vest everywhere and had several "pagan" symbols that he wore on chains around his neck (typically, at least 3 at a time). Well, I avoided this guy for a year and a half at school.

Then a good friend of mine taught my roommate and I how to play AD&D. We were quickly hooked and started "gaming" on a regular basis. One night, we're in the middle of a game in my dorm room when there is a knock on the door, and in walks Mr. Hell's Angel himself!!! This guy that I had actively avoided was now standing in my tiny dorm room!!!! Well, it turns out that he was good friends with my buddy that taught us AD&D. After my initial reservations, this "scary looking guy" and I have become VERY good friends. He is also the person responsible for getting me interested in religious debates.

He is a devout atheist - primarily because he had a very similar experience to Ryndel in his school. He also reminds me a lot of Hunter, because he is always "pre-judged" by his appearance. (even by me, but my objections to his appearance weren't based on my religious beliefs, he just looked dangerous - just like I imagine Hunter does). I do believe our body is a temple, but I don't believe tattoos or piercings "violate" that temple...and based on Hunter's love for lifting weights, I would imagine his "temple" is in much better shape than mine.

Hunter, the next time a Christian gives you grief about "violating" your body, ask them if they smoke. Then tell them that at least your choice of "defacing" doesn't kill the temple from within. If that doesn't work, you can still give them the finger.

Ryndel, there is nothing I can say that will improve your situation. It is exactly that kind of treatment that has led me to be more tolerant and RESPECTFUL of others views - even when they disagree with me.

Do I believe you are "in need of Salvation or misguided"? Yes, I do. Satan's main goal is to pull people away from God, and the best way to do that is to "decieive" them into thinking that He doesn't even exist.

HOWEVER, I understand that my beliefs "don't mean Jack" to you - and that is fine. Unlike everyone else around you, I'm not going to "shove them down your throat". This is the BIGGEST flaw I see in Christians today. They do not know how to witness to the non-believer with LOVE and RESPECT. They're too busy yelling about you burning in Hell to realize that all they're doing is pi$$ing you off and driving you even further away from believing in God. After all, if THAT'S how God's followers act, there is no reason for you to consider "crossing over".

That's why I try a different approach. I would greatly rejoice if you DID convert (or revert, as the case may be) to Christianity, but YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE that can make that decision. NOTHING I do or say is going to convince you I'm right. So all I can do is treat you with RESPECT and hope that prompts you to re-asses your opinion of Christian in general (not that I would blame you if it didn't, though). Not all of us are like that. I wish I could say the MAJORITY of us are not like that, but it's hard to do when faced with the numerous examples listed in this thread alone. I would like to suggest that the "bad Christians" so many of you have met are the vocal minority, but I'm afraid the statistics wouldn't support such an assumption.

Just rest assured that I will treat your views and opinions with respect in any discussion we have and will not attempt to "force" you to accept my views.

AliCat, I would be happy to address any questions you have. You can use PM or e-mail if you want, but I prefer to discuss the issues publicly. That way, others who have the same questions can read my answers and offer their own counter-arguments in return.

MelusineI've always enjoyed "heavy metal" music, and still do. AAMOF, my all time "favorite" band is AC/DC. I have my own "Best Of" tape that I listen to almost every single day while driving to and from work. Angus and Malcolm Young ROCK on guitar.

[/)eathKiller]

Kudos to Cerek *applauds*

I couldn't have said it better ,myself...

[Ar-Cunin]

I'll second that comment /)eathkiller

It is good to remember that not all Christians are evil

I know this from my own family - my sister-in-law is an ex-Jehovas Witness, but despite the fact that she left their religion, she still have normal contact to her parents - they attended the wedding.

(In other cases I've read about parents refusing to see their children if they abandoned the faith)

Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: He weighed about 300lbs, had loooong stringy blonde hair (along with a thigh goatee).

Cerek, please, pleae, PLEASE, tell me that was ome kind of typo, or explain what in the name of the dog a thigh goatee is !!! I have a vision of "thigh goatee" in my head, and it's not good... worse yet, I'm laughing so hard, I'm crying, and people are looking at me funny. Well, they always do look at me funny, but I think one of 'em is calling 9-1-1...

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Absynthe: quote: Originally posted by Cerek the Barbaric: He weighed about 300lbs, had loooong stringy blonde hair (along with a thigh goatee).

Cerek, please, pleae, PLEASE, tell me that was ome kind of typo, or explain what in the name of the dog a thigh goatee is !!! I have a vision of "thigh goatee" in my head, and it's not good... worse yet, I'm laughing so hard, I'm crying, and people are looking at me funny. Well, they always do look at me funny, but I think one of 'em is calling 9-1-1...[/QUOTE]Ooooooooopsssss!!! [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/blush.gif[/img] You are correct that it should have been a THICK goatee, not a thigh one. (I think he would have to be classified as a Sasquatch if he had one of those. )

However, this same person DID provide our group with an equally humorous "mental image" just this weekend. One of our friends sent a link to a "Jail Bait Quiz". There were pictures of several girls and you had to guess which ones were over the age of 16.

My friend only scored about 65% (about the same as me ). His response was...

"Fortunately, girls find me about as desirable as a porcupine-quill thong, so I don't have much to worry about."

He really is a great and funny guy.

[Sir ReGiN]

You're a wonderful person Cerek, just wanted you to know
Carry on

[Oblivion437]

Well, I live in a small town, and I was talking to someone about a guy who murdered someone in the name of 'Jesus'* and that it was perhaps a negative effect his religion may have had on society, but before I could refute myself, and say that it wasn't his real reason, that he was just crazy, and before my friend could warn me, a crazy girl of the overweight sort said "You don't believe in Jesus? How could you NOT believe? I won't listen to anyone who won't acknowledge our lord!" Yeah, a total moron. My friend, who knew me as the inflammatory type, just managed a wry smile, and I turned around, a cold, drone-expression on my face. I said "Jesus ■■■■■■■ Christ, you won't listen, but you'll spout it out like those little chunks of food in your mouth (it was her fault she was fat)? I can NOT believe all I want, it's America..." That's where I stopped, and he and I just moved to a different table, ignoring the incoherent babble of distant bigots, which my town is full of. Take your pick of: Latin haters, Black haters, Irish haters, Italian haters, German haters, French haters, people who think all English people are gay, Immigration opponents, people who think the world owes us money, guys who call Atheists hellbound (who they especially love to hate), just a genuine picture of America, if you will. Anti-atheism is for some odd reason exceptionally strong. I am an Atheist, I am pronounced, but I don't go spouting it.

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Ar-Cunin: I'll second that comment /)eathkiller It is good to remember that not all Christians are evil I know this from my own family - my sister-in-law is an ex-Jehovas Witness, but despite the fact that she left their religion, she still have normal contact to her parents - they attended the wedding. (In other cases I've read about parents refusing to see their children if they abandoned the faith)

Yes my mom did! But only for three years, then she turned on the church and told em to sod off, her daughter was her daughter and they could go to hell. She left the JW's eventually, - I think they were quite pleased to see her go really, - far too much of a free thinker for their liking, and also, she likes science fiction, which at the time was a bit of a no no, although they may have loosened up on that these days, who knows.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

As I read over these threads and the "shared experiences" of the atheists, I have to stop and wonder WHY Christians act towards them in this manner.`

Even "high profile" Christians like Robertson and Falwell seem to do little more than say that "these sinners are going straight to Hell".

Why is that? Why do they get so angry at these "free thinkers" and thier opposing beliefs?

The only answer I can come up with is a deep-rooted insecurity. Too many Christians don't read their Bible, even though they base their entire belief system on it. They know the highlights, but that's about it. And the fact is, that type of "surface knowledge" simply can't stand up to the question posed by atheists about the discrepencies/inconsistencies/contradictions contained within the Holy Bible.

I understand this POV because I used to react the same way. My aforementioned friend started asking questions that were extremely difficult to answer. I often got frustrated and wanted to fall back on the standard "You're gonna burn" defense myself whenever he had backed me into a theoligical corner with seemingly irrefutable logic.

However, rather than back down or give up, I started to actually search my Bible for the passages he mentioned. I also looked up different versions "Online" and found some great sites that offered VERY logical answers that countered his "irrefutable logic".

The point is, I EXAMINED my faith. He doesn't accept the Bible as an authorative document, so I couldn't base my answers on "the Bible says this, so I believe it." In the end, my faith became even stronger as I WAS able to offer answers to his questions.

Did it change his opinion or beliefs? NO. He is still an atheist and probably always will be. That's his choice. But he has complimented my efforts nonetheless. He may not agree with my answers, but at least I don't avoid the question entirely.

Too many Christians do avoid the questions because they CAN'T answer them. This, in turn, embarasses them when they realize they can't adequately defend their faith. And that embarassment often results in "agressive denial".

That certainly doesn't justify thier actions and attitudes, but it should give the atheists some small measure of satisfaction.

When a Christian just "spouts and shouts" at you, it's because you've made them very uncomfortable.