Two complaints (not meant to flame)

[Rolandthemad]

There are two reasons I couldn`t stand to play Wizardry 8. The first was the perspective. 1st person perspective for a party of six to eight? Argh! The second was the leveled, respawning monsters. Its like "I just cleared out the road from Arnika to the Monestary.. oh now wait 50 bandits just magically reappeared!". Double argh!

The first person perspective thing is kind of forgivable but I really, really hated the respawning of monsters in masses. I mean, is it too much to ask that after you hunt down every single bandit, monster, and mutant crab to clear that area that the area *stay* cleared? It wouldn`t be so bad if the *some* of the monsters returned, but every one of them returned and they were *stronger*. Argh!

To wrap things up, yes I realize this post is kind of flamish but I really just wanted to know if anyone else was annoyed by these two things like I was. Actually I haven`t played the game in a really long time (I first got it right when it hit the shelves), but I was thinking of trying it again and these two annoyances caused me not to.

[Kakero]

I don't have any problem with first person view perspective. in fact I love games that are first person perspective.

yeah, the second one is a problem, I dreaded to fight 20 monsters from all site. but this didn't stop me from playing wiz 8 for several times.

[EEWorzelle]

Wizardry 8 is not initially an easy game. Many players rush headlong, often on expert difficulty (blush) and get themselves quickly into trouble with long battles fighting too many enemies. Why? Player skills.

Give yourself a break when you first start out. Don't try to play on expert right away (play on easy for a while if the interface is really new). The regeneration of monsters in W8 is typically near and based upon the level of the highest level character in your party. This makes W8 an excellent, well balanced game, but it can be a bit of a learning curve for new players. It is not anything wrong with the game, it is supposed to be that way, and once you get into it for a bit, you will love it!

What typically happens is inexperienced players take excessive damage and take much longer to handle foes, resulting in the need to sleep more to replenish. This sleeping causes time to pass and, yes, monsters at your level do regenerate and add to what is already there. Do this too much and you can find yourself surrounded and... doomed. The open road is dangerous in the beginning of the game, it is wise to avoid most conflict if you can until you reach civilization and get some early help, decent equipment and more spells (like some place with several shops and friendlies around).

Regarding the first person perspective, do not be alarmed. That huge monster filling your screen cannot really hurt you. (Sorry, but the first person perspective is so incredibly superior, IMO, than tiny blobs, in terms of realism, game play, and role playing, that I guess I've developed an attitude about it. I've played lots of both. Play for a while, once or twice through the game, and then see if you don't agree.)

[ 01-24-2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

[Roboghost]

There would be no way you could reach 50th level or other such masterful achievements without the big battles. The big battles also skill you up for the really tough fights. With buffing and careful selection of spells, you can clear the stupid fights fast (i.e. PLANTS--you get no gold or goodies). Buy the best armor [and/or protect with spells] for the exposed players, keep your back to the wall or the monsters between you and a doorway, and play with the formations.
I find it nice playing games with any number of perspectives to keep life from getting too boring!

Like...I'm trying this mint tea right now, but I think I'll dump it into the ocean. Blah!

[Rolandthemad]

I just hate that it is necessary. It isn`t very realistic to clear out and area and have it instantly repopulated. It might be ok if you left it for awhile and when you finally came back (like the return to the Monastary) it would have some new bandits waiting for you.. but otherwise.. eh..

Hmmm.. maybe I`ll give Wizardry another shot. Right now I`m having fun with Morrowind (which also has my preferred POV - 3rd person over the shoulder).

[Kakero]

Roland, have you tried any Might and Magic series? it is also in first person view. however once you clear the region of monsters they won't appear again for some time.

[Kzonon]

I've always preferred the 3rd person point of view....perhaps a legacy from my younger eye of the beholder days when I gave myself nightmares. As far as re-population goes, I'm fine with it.

[EEWorzelle]

Kakero, I loved the MM games, and replayed them. But the opposition was based upon location and would always respawn, when they did, at the same level. This made the game tedious and repetitive, due to the lack of balance, according to some reviewers. In Wizardry, there are min and max levels to the opposition in each area, rather than fixed levels, which keeps you on your toes until you pass the max.

Rolandthemad, your point about realism is a good one. I think it's trying to simulate that there are many more opponents hidden around than your party typically encounters as they traverse a region, unless they linger. I agree that the open road, at that early point in the game, feels unbalanced against the player. It gets more fair (but never easy). I respect that you are going to give the game another shot. Beware that you could become addicted!

Roboghost, I agree that when you are ready for them, the big battles can be cool. Being surrounded by six opposing parties with no magic left and only poor armor, early in the game, is no fun, however. About ever reaching the 50th level, good luck. It would take a year of playing full time almost, to reach that level. 99% of that time would be spent after you could have easily finished the game. For example experience to get a level 50 Mage is 2256 million experience points, while to get a level 25 Mage (a typical ending level for a full size party) is 22.5 million. Thus to double your level (from 25 to 50) takes about 100 times as long, because the monsters don't keep getting more powerful much after the normal end of the game.

[ 01-24-2003, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: EEWorzelle ]

[Luvian]

I really liked the Might and Magic Games, but I also think that first person view is stupid when you have more than one character. Where are the other characters? In your pocket!?!

[EEWorzelle]

Good discussion! And it's a good point Luvian! Admitted, it can be fun to handle party formations, and individual character movement on the playing field, particularly in combat. But it can also be tedious and repetitive. W8 and many of the other first person perspective games do have a formation, which can change in or out of battle, but the assumption is made that the characters can fire off their weapons and spells without hitting each other. It is not unrealistic that they could do so, but even if it were, so what?

Let me give another example. Did you notice how many early RPGs made a big deal out of food. There was no up side, you handled it propoerly or you died. If you put attention on it and did handle it properly, nothing bad or good happened because of it. Take it out. Assume the characters are smart enough to eat when they need to and don't make the player worry about something that adds little or nothing to the game. The elements of story, environment, strategy, and role playing are the most fun, and the more streamlined these can be, IMHO, the better.