A comment about the complaints

[homer]

I have noticed that quite a few people have expressed disappointment with this game. However it seems to me that the majority of the gripes are about the story. NWN came with an excellent mod designer. If you do not like the story there are hundreds of others on-line. You might also try making your own story.

[Darkman]

I agree. Many of the complaints from this board and other boards seem to center on the lackings and misgivings of the Official Campaign version of NWN. Contrary to logic, the OC is not a good indicator of the quality of this game [img]smile.gif[/img] By now almost every complaint has been addressed in one way or another in a user-made module, hak pack, script, work-around, etc. Not all of these are good and some are very crudely done, but at least they're there and there are more coming out every day. There are haks which allow multiple henchmen with accessible inventories. There are haks that provide custom portraits, tiles, animations, sounds, etc. There are scripts that alter the game rules in various ways. There is even a camera hak for those who can't stand the way the camera normally moves. Besides these tangible things, there are also pleanty of modules generated for specific types of gameplay, many of which are improvements upon the OC. Better story, better action, better humor, etc. NWN can be whatever you want. You just have to download the right haks and mods

I'm not saying that NWN is the end-all-be-all of games, but it is more than just the piddling Official Campaign that shipped with the Toolset [img]smile.gif[/img]

[the new JR Jansen]

I tend to disagree. While your statements are correct and you can customize NWN to your own liking, a lot of people buy RPG's for a single player experience. If that campaign is lacking and you have to customize it a lot, i get the feeling that the fans are doing the jobs of the developers for them and that can't be good.

[Larry_OHF]

Originally posted by the new JR Jansen: I tend to disagree. While your statements are correct and you can customize NWN to your own liking, a lot of people buy RPG's for a single player experience. If that campaign is lacking and you have to customize it a lot, i get the feeling that the fans are doing the jobs of the developers for them and that can't be good.

That's why this game is customizable!
They knew that not everyone would enjoy what they produced, and everybody seemed to want a degree of control, so they made a game that gave us what we wanted. They also proved to the world that nobody can make a perfect game. If I made my own game based on notes and recommendations that every member of this forum gave me to use as a guide...there would still be hundreds of thousands of people that would say it sucked.

So why would they make it customizable? Because they could never satisfy every person's desire...so they let every man and woman do it himself/herself...and in the process teach us a lesson that the "perfect game" cannot be done, because the world is full of critics.

[homer]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: So why would they make it customizable? Because they could never satisfy every person's desire...so they let every man and woman do it himself/herself...and in the process teach us a lesson that the "perfect game" cannot be done, because the world is full of critics.

This is really the point I was trying to make. I personally like the single player module that came with the game. I have been playing it for a few months now and have not gotten tired of it. I was merely suggesting that it is probably not easy to make a long and involved story line, however if you are capable of it, maybe you should try it. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[the new JR Jansen]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: That's why this game is customizable! They knew that not everyone would enjoy what they produced, and everybody seemed to want a degree of control, so they made a game that gave us what we wanted. They also proved to the world that nobody can make a perfect game. If I made my own game based on notes and recommendations that every member of this forum gave me to use as a guide...there would still be hundreds of thousands of people that would say it sucked. So why would they make it customizable? Because they could never satisfy every person's desire...so they let every man and woman do it himself/herself...and in the process teach us a lesson that the "perfect game" cannot be done, because the world is full of critics.[/QB]

Your points are not without merit, as such 'the perfect game' does not exist and will never exist. I do question the logic behind it though.

So what you are saying, and correct me if i'm wrong because it could just be a misunderstanding, is that because a game is customizable, they can get away with making an official campaign that is lacking [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] ?

You know, i really hope that this doesn't become a trend. I can see the developers sitting at a meeting. One says 'We better come up with a good single player campaign so that we might sell more.' An other reacts and says 'Why bother ? We'll just rush out the game and plump an editor on the CD. We can even use it as a marketing ploy and tell the fans that they can make their own game.'

Being able to customize the game shouldn't excuse, yes excuse, the bad official campaign.

Just my two cents

[homer]

[quote]Originally posted by the new JR Jansen:

So what you are saying, and correct me if i'm wrong because it could just be a misunderstanding, is that because a game is customizable, they can get away with making an official campaign that is lacking [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] ? [quote]

In my opinion the official campaign was not lacking. I believe that it must be quite an undertaking to accomplish something as involved as this. I in no way think that a company producing a game should ever think that they can half-ass it because they have made it customizable. I do not believe that this was done with NWN.

My main point was to offer an alternative to uninstalling the game and never playing it again. If you are griping about the official campaign then you have obviously brought the game already. So instead of just taking it as a loss you might try other modules or creating your own.

[ 01-06-2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: homer ]

[Larry_OHF]

the new JR Jansen...Can I call ya Jan-o for short??? I had not seen your point until that last post. Thanks. It is more clear now, where you are coming from. Your point is very valid. If alot of people are griping that the single-player campaign is lacking...then the producers obviously paid more attention ot other aspects of the game's creation like Multi-gaming and toolset creation...but if nobody noticed, then I will sound it out here that even those points were lacking in quality when the game was first released. Nobody could get the Dungeon Master part to work, the toolset was buggy, and Multi games crashed all damn day! Mostly when one member would be walking through a transition door while somebody else was saving the game or entering a separate transition. That is when it happened most to my games I hosted. So...you are right. They released a crappy game. Thus far, they have improved on the Mutli gaming, the Toolset and the DM client...but those that did not like the Single-player game are still left with no satisfaction. Nevertheless...it isn't as bad as Dungeon Siege. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[the new JR Jansen]

[quote]Originally posted by homer:
[quote]Originally posted by the new JR Jansen:

So what you are saying, and correct me if i'm wrong because it could just be a misunderstanding, is that because a game is customizable, they can get away with making an official campaign that is lacking [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] ?

In my opinion the official campaign was not lacking. I believe that it must be quite an undertaking to accomplish something as involved as this. I in no way think that a company producing a game should ever think that they can half-ass it because they have made it customizable. I do not believe that this was done with NWN. My main point was to offer an alternative to uninstalling the game and never playing it again. If you are griping about the official campaign then you have obviously brought the game already. So instead of just taking it as a loss you might try other modules or creating your own.

You know, when i buy a game (especially an RPG), i buy it for the single player campaign. If that one is not that good, then i'm not going to mod it. For example, i played the BG series and the Fallout series. I liked both and have heavely modded them with all kinds of things to make it even more appealing but the original story has to be one that i like or i'm not even going to bother. As for making my own campaign, i just don't have the time to do that.

And Larry, whatever tickles your fancy

[Ronn_Bman]

You have to keep in mind, the whole time this game was being developed and talked about as a "leap forward" in fantasy gaming, it was as a multiplayer game. Only in the last few months prior to release did they begin to talk about the included solo mod.

For those who don't like the solo mod and/or don't want to create a mod, you can download 2,000 or so. Not to mention the new Witchwork mod that Bioware is releasing as a series.

It's unmatched as a D&D multiplayer game, and while playing solo it is not BG or IWD, but it's still great because as a solo game it doesn't have to end.