just out of interest...amazingly exciting grammar poll

[Vaskez]

Just wondering how many people can actually write properly...so go on be honest and if anyone needs explanation, just ask. I fail to understand how so many native english speakers cannot write proper english. Then I feel sorry for those learning english and learning it wrong because they read it wrong on forums etc.

[ 09-17-2003, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

[Stormymystic]

ok, it is out, I am an idiot

[Kakero]

darn, English is a one hard language. Can't do anything without a translator.

[Tancred]

You're right... this IS kind of exciting! I haven't felt that rush since primary school! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Azimaith]

Don't forget the rules for who and whom. Funny I answered yes to all of them options.

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Stormymystic: ok, it is out, I am an idiot

Ah Stormy, don't be so hard on you'reself. Their's still plenty of time to learn & look whose always here to help you

Nah, seriously, if anyone's not sure about any of the ones above, I'd be happy to explain here or in PM. Aren't I the benevolent one?

[Gabrielles blades]

i dont particularly think thats real grammer. i know in classes it is taught to be, but to me many of those are just words entire unto themselves. Much like the online language where people might say lol, it's a shortening of the real language for quite a few of those words.

You might want to instead ask if people know when/where to use , ; : . etc etc, and if they know how to proporly form complete sentences (not fragments) and if the words are ordered in the correct way.

Also, in any language it seems as if the taught language is distinctly different from the language in actual use. As you note the majority of the population probably has trouble with simple vocabulary often absently substituting one two for another to or too and like. So too do people use words not even in the dictionary. Such as yall, aint, and other such local dialect types.

Basically, in order to truly learn any language, you need to live it. A classroom can only really do so much, but living the language is what will really make you learn it.

Or atleast that is how i feel about my 'learning' of the spanish language. Sure i memorized correct grammer, word placing, and vocabulary. But all of that amounds to nothing when it comes to actually talking to someone whos native tongue is spanish, or reading some 'real' spanish books. All i am right now i think is a slow dictionary and so has to translate word for word letter for letter what a meaning is - and this i know is not what learning a language should result in at all.

And just because people know the propor grammatical language doesnt mean they will not occasionally make mistakes, or just ignore it altogether in order to not spend an overly long amount of time making something grammatically correct when most will not even notice whether or not it is.

*edit*
P.S.
yourself is a word, you're is you are shortened, and i dont think can be added to self to make you'reself, though i think you were doing that on purpose.

[ 09-17-2003, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Gabrielles blades ]

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Azimaith: Don't forget the rules for who and whom. Funny I answered yes to all of them options.

You tryina test me? "Who" is used when referring to an object in nominative case and "whom" is used in acusative or dative case. Hmmm can you even use who or whom in genitive? Clear to everyone?

It's funny how everyone is answering "yes" to all the questions yet I see far more people mess these words up than get them right on IW. I guess it's different when someone asks if you know the difference : you think about it and then you know. Most people know apparently, they just don't pay attention and mess up when writing quickly. Or something.

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Gabrielles blades: i dont particularly think thats real grammer. i know in classes it is taught to be, but to me many of those are just words entire unto themselves. Much like the online language where people might say lol, it's a shortening of the real language for quite a few of those words. You might want to instead ask if people know when/where to use , ; : . etc etc, and if they know how to proporly form complete sentences (not fragments) and if the words are ordered in the correct way. Also, in any language it seems as if the taught language is distinctly different from the language in actual use. As you note the majority of the population probably has trouble with simple vocabulary often absently substituting one two for another to or too and like. So too do people use words not even in the dictionary. Such as yall, aint, and other such local dialect types. Basically, in order to truly learn any language, you need to live it. A classroom can only really do so much, but living the language is what will really make you learn it. Or atleast that is how i feel about my 'learning' of the spanish language. Sure i memorized correct grammer, word placing, and vocabulary. But all of that amounds to nothing when it comes to actually talking to someone whos native tongue is spanish, or reading some 'real' spanish books. All i am right now i think is a slow dictionary and so has to translate word for word letter for letter what a meaning is - and this i know is not what learning a language should result in at all. And just because people know the propor grammatical language doesnt mean they will not occasionally make mistakes, or just ignore it altogether in order to not spend an overly long amount of time making something grammatically correct when most will not even notice whether or not it is. *edit* P.S. yourself is a word, you're is you are shortened, and i dont think can be added to self to make you'reself, though i think you were doing that on purpose.

You're quick today
What do you mean it's not real grammar? LOL. Grammar is the set of rules used to govern correct writing according to a language so in the strictest sense you are right, those words are not "grammar" since they are words not rules. But I don't see your point. Why is it better to ask people if they can use punctuation properly?

You say language in use is different to that taught: yes but speech and writing are seperate things. In writing people use the correct language always, unlike in speech. Speech is instantaneous utterances usually and writing is considered for longer. You wouldn't get anywhere without correct grammar as everyone would just make up their own rules until several different languages emerged and no one would be able to understand each other.

People who know the proper grammar will only make mistakes if they have seem other people write it wrong too many times. In theory they should be so used to writing it correctly that there is no reason to make mistakes: you write it correctly even without thinking.

You say that most people don't notice whether grammar is correct - well people who don't notice are either too tired, distracted, or are not educated enough to know the difference and so either way their opinion on the matter (at that time) is not really valuable.

On another note:
Hmm maybe I need to add some more questions to that poll:

5) Do you know difference between and when to use "to" and "too"?
6) Of and off?
7) Who and whom?

etc. etc.
hehe

[ 09-17-2003, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Vaskez ]

[Stormymystic]

ahhh, almost learned something there , but saved by a screaming child