Crusade against M$soft?

[Dreamer128]

EU Judge Upholds Penalties Against Microsoft

By Douglas Bakshian and David Lawsky
LUXEMBOURG/BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp. lost a European Union court appeal on Wednesday against sanctions imposed by EU regulators that will force it to change business practices and sell a stripped-down version of Windows.

The Court of First Instance upheld the penalties imposed by the executive European Commission in March when it found the U.S. software giant had abused the virtual monopoly of its computer operating system Windows and levied a record fine.

"Microsoft has not demonstrated specifically that it might suffer serious and irreparable damage," Court of First Instance President Bo Vesterdorf said. "The application must therefore be dismissed in its entirety."

His decision means the EU antitrust regulator's remedies take effect immediately.

Microsoft said it would comply from next month with the order to sell to computer makers a version of Windows without its trademark Windows Media Player music and video software and share secret specifications with rival makers of servers.

"We will move forward immediately to comply with today's decision," Microsoft's general counsel, Brad Smith, said in a conference call with reporters. He said the company had not yet decided whether to appeal against Wednesday's order.

Vesterdorf's order was a setback to Microsoft's push for a negotiated settlement that might require the EU executive to rescind a major decision for the first time in its history.

Smith nevertheless urged the Commission to consider fresh settlement talks, arguing the judge had found some merit in Microsoft's arguments on the substance of the case.

"Is there enough here for the Commission to restart settlement negotiations?" he asked. "There's nothing here to guarantee that either side is going to win at the end of the day."

But Commission competition spokesman Jonathan Todd said the court decision had upheld the effectiveness of antitrust action and the EU executive was "not in a process of renegotiation" with the software giant.

He noted that judges find some merit in 90 percent of such cases, but that doesn't mean the appeal will prevail. Microsoft shares were slightly weaker in late morning trade in Frankfurt, down 0.40 percent at 20.07 euros.

CONSUMER VICTORY
"This is a victory for consumers," said Thomas Vinje, a Brussels lawyer who represented an industry group which dropped out of the case after a $20 million settlement with Microsoft.

EU courts have overturned a string of high-profile Commission antitrust and merger control rulings in recent years.

The decision by the second highest EU court can be appealed to the European Court of Justice, which would take another three to eight months, experts say.

Microsoft's main appeal will be heard by a panel of five judges of the lower court that will not include Vesterdorf.

Microsoft wanted the penalties, which the Commission suspended temporarily during this appeal, frozen until its court case on the substance of the EU ruling finishes years from now.

The EU executive argued that the market would have moved on and the sanctions would be obsolete. Todd said there was no longer any reason to extend the voluntary suspension.

The Commission ordered Microsoft to share data protocols -- software rules of the road -- with makers of work group servers that are used in offices to access files and run printers.

To win Wednesday's appeal for so-called interim measures, Microsoft had to show not only that it had a reasonable case but also that it urgently needed relief and that the balance of interests between it and the public weighed in its favor.

In the case of the protocols, the judge said "a number of questions of principle were raised" but "the requirement relating to urgency is not satisfied."

Microsoft did not seek to avoid the 497 million euro ($665.4 million) fine, much less than the billions of dollars it paid this year to settle antitrust cases with other companies.

The Commission ruled that Microsoft bundled its audiovisual player with Windows to damage such rivals as RealNetworks Inc.'s RealPlayer and Apple Computer Inc.'s QuickTime.

It said computer makers should be able to offer a version of Windows with audiovisual software manufactured by those rivals, rather than the Microsoft product.

© Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved.

[philip]

I think some of this is just bs. Like a desktop environment IMO contains all kinds of (more or less useful) applications. With a desktop system you should be able to do basic tasks, like surfing the internet, text editing, play media files, email.

And of course a commercial company is going to make its own applications and put them in. Of course it's a game between different companies. But does m$ have the complete media market under it? Nope, it can't play .ram, it doesn't play quicktime. Those programs are there for a reason. And well IMO WMP is superior. It looks better, it's not as annoying as quicktime in its behaviour (hey I thought I'd just deleted this quicktime key from my registry and within an hour it's back) and it's faster and has some options (like repeat) that realplayer doesn't have.

Realplayer and quicktime just don't have it to make it better than windows media player (in windows at least), it's just a different tool for a different job. Most people only have realplayer and quicktime for their proprietary file formats. Nothing more, nothing less. Both have the name to be not that good. Firefox on the other hand is such an example of a well thought-out program that can compete with m$.

But it seems that there are just too many people with no common sense in the EU to realise that.

Same thing with software patents. Who in their right mind thinks software patents are a good idea? Just like patents on genes. Common sense is hard to find in the European Commision. Just like the only thing they see is the economic picture :/ And the money flowing in of course (judging from the text "EU regulators" the money of the fines will go to the EU for some part isn't it?)

edit: Saying things a little more politically correct. Don't want any trouble by calling government names

[ 12-22-2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: philip ]

[LennonCook]

Phillip, you are missing part of the problem. Yeah, they're going to ship it with their own programs. Just like alot of Linux distros ship with other open-source programs, and just like MacOS ships with Quicktime, and a few other things.
But Microsoft doesn't let you opt out of them at install time, or even remove them from your system afterward. This is what I see in this: it is forcing Microsoft to let customers not install IE.

But, yes, the EU does seem to be seeing a bit too much of the financial side of it, and not enough of the actual problems...

[Azred]

It doesn't matter if you cannot opt out of the install or remove them afterward. Modern hard drives have so many GB of storage that you won't miss the extra space, and even if something is on your computer doesn't mean you have to use it.
A parallel: Are there channels you don't watch on your cable service? Well, then the cable company should give you the option of deleting the channels you don't watch or don't like because they shouldn't force those channels on anyone. [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/idontagreeatall.gif[/img] If you don't want it, don't use it, but don't financially punish Microsoft for being successful.

[philip]

Originally posted by LennonCook: Phillip, you are missing part of the problem. Yeah, they're going to ship it with their own programs. Just like alot of Linux distros ship with other open-source programs, and just like MacOS ships with Quicktime, and a few other things. But Microsoft doesn't let you opt out of them at install time, or even remove them from your system afterward. This is what I see in this: it is forcing Microsoft to let customers not install IE. But, yes, the EU does seem to be seeing a bit too much of the financial side of it, and not enough of the actual problems...

Well still, to take the linux example. KDE ships with Konqueror and a load of other programs I've never used (it was even one of the reasons I stopped using KDE and Gnome for), Gnome with Nautilus. If you don't have Nautilus installed in gnome you won't have a desktop (not possible I think even). Same with XFCE4. I don't see why the thing is now suddenly a problem. Windows is a lot older and it has always been this way.

I'm not saying it doesn't have its problems but I'd rather say make m$ do something on that. .ram files and quicktime is just as proprietary as m$ windows. Only on a different scale. Real forces me to use RealPlayer to watch .ram files. I demand they give their code to the mPlayer project so they can include newer .ram files! See where I'm going. This is just how closed source works.

[philip]

Originally posted by Azred: It doesn't matter if you cannot opt out of the install or remove them afterward. Modern hard drives have so many GB of storage that you won't miss the extra space, and even if something is on your computer doesn't mean you have to use it.

Others can still use it to get access to your PC from. Standard programs like this give security issues, even if they aren't really in theirself (not the case with IE ). But with closed source you can't delete it. You'll never will. As long as you're using windows you'll be sort of Bill Gates' puppet. You'll use your PC as he wants. Don't like it, don't use it. Same with other closed source. In linux I can watch old realplayer files in mPlayer but for the new ones I have to use realplayer. Same thing.

Originally posted by Azred: If you don't want it, don't use it, but don't financially punish Microsoft for being successful.

Can't agree more. No matter how they got in this position, they did it. If they'll keep that position I don't know but you at least have to acknowledge their success.

[Azred]

Originally posted by philip: As long as you're using windows you'll be sort of Bill Gates' puppet. You'll use your PC as he wants.

That is going to be my fate anyway. I do not, at this time, have the skills necessary to design my own operating system. If I did possess such knowledge, then I would design my own computer. I may be good, but I'm not that good. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

[philip]

Originally posted by Azred: quote: Originally posted by philip: As long as you're using windows you'll be sort of Bill Gates' puppet. You'll use your PC as he wants.

That is going to be my fate anyway. I do not, at this time, have the skills necessary to design my own operating system. If I did possess such knowledge, then I would design my own computer. I may be good, but I'm not that good. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]There's more out there than just windows or something you create yourself [img]tongue.gif[/img] It wasn't really meant that negative. You've just got a car without a steering wheel. It'll drive but you can't do everything as you want.