Flexible party in Insane -- 2nd time round!

[Ultra Marine]

Just completed the game with a Pal, dc-f9/m, r/c, dc-f3/d, fmt, bard.Yeah!

Planning to start another one in insane with a different setup. Will you help me with the tweaking? I am interested to make a very flexible party in terms of weapon selection. So I can use 90% of the weapons and armor found. Also access all spells. Not interested in dual classes because it takes too long and limits weapons.

1. Pal -- axes/mace/flail and swords at lvl 11. Main tank, axes as range weapons, and that nice sword later in the game.

2. Elf f/m -- bow/sw/dagger. Early archer and secondary tank. Later as an assassin. Maybe using hammer as the 4th weapon slot???

3. Elf Ranger -- bows/hberg/greatsw and later either staff??? or spear???. This guy is 80% on bows. Using 2-handed weapons to get advantage of the extra attach without shield (it works) and can attack behind summons. Basically ranged attacker.

4. dc f3/druid -- slinger/summoner/immobilizer and early healer.

5. dc t7/cleric -- slinger. Hunts traps/locks. Buffs and healer. Which is better, a good evil or neutral cleric? She wont be in battle...

6. bard -- singer and mage

[Aerich]

You said you aren't interested in dual classes, yet you have two in the party.

Fighter/Druid - Insane lends itself to multiclasses. At the very least, I'd turn the dc f3/druid into a mc - don't forget that you get bonuses to your attacks/round at fighter lvl 7 and 13. A mc f/d on insane will easily surpass lvl 13 in both classes, assuming you have both expansions.

Paladin - I'm not sold on having two blunt weapon proficiencies. Why not just one? You could use a ranged weapon (sling/darts or crossbow?) and axe in the early game, add mace or flail, then add longsword. You should hit lvl 6 in the Vale, and thereby have specialization in a blunt weapon to clear the skeletal undead.

Fighter/Mage - I'd put a blunt weapon in as the third proficiency, not the fourth. Hammer is fine. You could also make this character a gnome fighter/illusionist. One more slot per level will make a difference to a melee mage (extra mirror image), although you will miss out on a couple of decent necromancy spells.

Ranger - are you saying that you can get the extra attack with two-handed weapons? That is not the way it is supposed to work - can you verify that? Bow is good, greatsword is fine, but I'd add a blunt weapon because so few enemies have resistance to bludgeoning damage; a ranger has great offensive melee capacity and is ideally suited to coming in as an untargeted 3rd melee option against tough melee enemies. I'd also do one of halberd and spear, not both. With greatsword, you will still have a choice of two two-handed weapons - that should be enough. I do prefer spear because you find two good non-random spears, and I can't recall any fixed halberd drops - you may have to buy a decent halberd. You may wish to add longsword at some point because there are so many good ones and you would get the racial bonus.

Thief[7]/Cleric - Good enough; just make sure that you regain thief skills by DE lvl 5 (camp on DE lvl 3 if you have to). I'd put all the skill points into find/remove traps and open locks. The bard will cover pickpocketing and this character won't be scouting around much - the ranger can do that if you need it, and Sanctuary can be used for that purpose too. I prefer good clerics, but neutral clerics do get access to some "evil" cleric spells that good clerics cannot use - I've never found the reversed healing and raising spells to be all that useful because they require a touch attack and have really long casting times; both of which just cry out for disruption. Cloud of Pestilence is a good spell, and Circle of Bones is ok. An evil cleric is a pain if it has a really good turn undead skill - instead of destroying undead outright, you will merely control them for a short period of time, after which they turn hostile again. I believe evil clerics also lose access to the major healing and resurrection spells, so I wouldn't take an evil cleric unless I had a second, non-evil, cleric in the party.

[lost prophet]

I second what Aerich said evil clerics are an absolute waste of time. Basically the cleric is a character that was made to heal your party, even though sometimes people choose to use the bard with WCotS instead. Now if your cleric is evil he can no longer do that and IMO cannot therefore forfill his basic purpose in your party. To me its almost like a mage who can only cast half of the spells he should or a fighter who cant stand up straight. Even though rangers and Paladins can use healing spells their limited as well. Personally i take a Nuetral and a Good cleric but if your looking to use yours as a buffer and a healer then Good is probably the best way to go.

[Ultra Marine]

I ment I don't like playing f9>x or f13>x dual classes. Toooo long to wait.

I think I got the ranger right. I've tried creating a single char and gave 2pp in ls and 2pp in staff. They have the same apr.

I thought the same about evil clerics. They have to get too close to use their offensive spells.

[Ultra Marine]

The problem with weapons is there arent many non-random 2hand weapons early in the game.

There is a random hberg in the vale and another random in the temple.

I;m not sure about staff/axe.

Spear/GS comes too late.

[Zaleukos]

F7/anything X is fine on insane, the char will reactivate fighter in the vale of shadows IIRC. The only problem is the lack of GM.

[lost prophet]

im sure Noble Nick will back me up on this if he can tear himself away from the morrowind forum but DC Fighter13/x are unbelievable. Even though you have to wait a while its worth it when you get your fighter class back. I was playing on normal and had 5 DC F/_ in my party and they regained their fighter clases in lower DD which wasnt to bad. However if i can convince you to take make this awsome choice then i guess thats that.

You've said tht you have given your ranger 2pp in staffs, personally i think it would be a better idea if you gave him a one handed weapon as rangers only get an extra attack per round if they have a one handed weapon equipped and no shield so as you can see a quaterstaf doesnt qualify. Moreover there arnt really many good staffs in the game and even the ones that are there are not really anything to rave about, unless that is theres a really good one in TotLM im not sure bout that.

[Ultra Marine]

I'm sure dc is awesome but not for me ... i'd go with a mc for flexibility. The only dc i'll ever use again is a thief7>cleric/mage or a f3>druid.

I've tried a f9>mage but have to wait too long. I'm sure f13>mage is way better but i'll be bored to death. hmmmm... maybe its better in Hof .... makes me wonder.

But that's just me.

[Ultra Marine]

…spoiler…

Lets discuss some details on the natural progression on weapons found in iwd. Assume level 11 and progress at proper sequence. Lets forget about changing party composition for the moment. I have a vision of using 80% weapons in the game.

1a) Pal – mace/axe/flail/sword -- No bows for the goblins/skeletons but have throwing axes. Mace+1 for skeletons, which is a big advantage compared to Sword+1. In de, will get +2axe for extra ac and +2returning axe as primary missile. Gets hammer-flail for non-undead. Later, PJ.

1b) Pal - bows/mace/axe/sword -- Bows for goblins at the start and +1mace for skeletons. Axes obsoletes bows which I think is a waste. Can’t use hammer flails?

So, which is it?

2. Gnome F/I
If we use 1a) then bows/hammer/dagger/sword. Bows 50% of the time and secondary tank. There is a non-random +1hammer and +1dagger in the vale. In de, +2poison dagger and another +1dagger.Why give up daggers? and hammers?

If we use 1b) then bows/dagger/flail/sword. But here, we give up hammers. I’m not sure if this is good or not?

3. Elf Ranger -- bows/hberg/greatsw/staff. Exist random +1hberg in the vale in one of the caves and another random in the temple lvl2. Non-random +1greatsw after completing vale. I am sure there is a good +2staff in the elf tower but I’m not sure if it is random. I’m not sure of any gsword that are non-random. I have a vision of rangers using only 2handed weapons and fighting behind summons or fighting inside an area filled with entangle+grease. Does anyone know of the natural progression of 2handed weapons here?

4. mc f/d – slings/dagger/spear/scimitar. Lets face it, no magic scimitar early in the game but they are plenty daggers. Anyway, don’t think it makes a difference as this she won’t be a tank or doing hand-to-hand at all. Most of the time should be in slings/spears. Never used a mc f/d but I will thanks to AerichJ

5. dc t7/cleric – slings.

6. bard – slings, axe, darts and that harp.

[ister]

Losing hammers hurts because Conlan's hammer allows you to hit enemies that require +3 at a time when you have precious few +3 weapons.

I am a big proponent of daggers, but I think they're much more effective on someone who can get to grand mastery.

You can buy the lucky scimitar early on if you have HOW.

On great swords, you get a non-random +4 one in UDD, which is reasonably early for that level of enchantment.

Are spears a good choice for 2 handed later on? You get a non-random +3 one in the ice museum, and a non-random +5 one in LDD.