US Senate approves debt limit increase

[shamrock_uk]

Hmm...well with the size of your budget deficit, if it was used to fund an economy, this new country would slide in at number 16 in the world, just after Spain! Rein it in boys!

[Yorick]

Ceeeerreeeeeek

Jooooohnieeeeee!

[img]tongue.gif[/img]

[John D Harris]

While everybody is crying about the USA's Fed Budget deficit answer me this what is the the percentage of the GDP is the budget deficit of the USA? what is the same for let's say France? or Germany? I beleive you'll find they are about the same percentage.(roughly 3.5-3.6%, see what a nice guy I am I'll even give you the answers, now go forth and try to prove me wrong ) Everybody is freaking out because the USA's amount is larger, so the USA's economy is larger. In fact as I showed several months ago on another thread the USA's economy is larger and more productive the the total EU's with less people.

Keep screaming about a depression, I can live with it, I control my life not others. Now before anybody starts in on my OPINION as to wheither or not I can live with a depression or not please show some manners and answer my qusetions.

Now on to the trade deficit, that is not because of the USA gov't , it is because we the American people have choosen to buy things that are imported. The export market is small in comparision to the domestic economy, in other words if we run a trade deficit or surplus that effect is much smaller on our OVER ALL economy, then if we(USA) have high unemployement, ie:less people working=less people buying both domestic and import. Look at the two other countries I mentioned earlier both have nearly TWICE the unemployement of the USA. That is why the EU is crying about a weak dollar, it means less exports to the USA. Their economies are barely making it now, how much harder is it going to be if they export less, to the number one consumer, the consumer that has the most money to blow on their exports.

Now for the fun part mark this thread down boys and girls at the end of 4 years not only will there be no depression, but the USA's economy will grow and increase it's lead over the other economies in the world including the total economy of the EU member countries as of this date. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

[ 11-23-2004, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: John D Harris ]

[Timber Loftis]

Size of economies don't matter -- if banks won't lend you money to float your debt you go bankrupt.

We could compare the US National debt to China's number of mountains, or the EU's number of cobblestone streets, or Cairo's cab drivers -- for all the relation it bears to GDP.

Anyway, I think you'll find that the countries of Europe are running $30 billion Euro debt or less each -- on the high end. Now, I *think* that is annual debt, not total debt.

The National Debt clock in New York was stopped in 2000, 5 years after the real estate mogul who put it up had died. In its final moments, the sign read: "Our national debt: $5,676,989,904,887. Your family share: $73,733."

Now that debt has shot from $5.6Tn to $7.5Tn.

You may not be suffering a recession now, but your children will pay for this foolishness. We can't borrow from German and French banks anymore -- we're not worth the risk, and we never pay. Chinese and Japanese banks currently have us on a short lease. With the $500 Bn we pay annually just on interest -- just for the privilege of floating the loan -- we could fix social security and health care and triple spending on the environment. Or, we could all take a frikkin huge tax break.

But no one in D.C. wants that. That usurps their Standard Operating Procedure -- which is to make sure everyone there gets just enough pork in their districts to remain an incumbent. Repubs and Dems agree, it's nice to take our money and spread it around.

After promising to balance the budget, Congress decreased spending by 0.8% this year. They should be embarrassed.

And so should you, for betraying every conservative value there is. Letting lawmakers vote in big money grabs and then vote to pork it out is the essential silver bullet that will kill a democracy. Democracies fail when the people figure out they can simply vote for who will give them the most money once elected. Democracies fail when the elected realize that to stay in power all they need do is sufficiently bribe their constituents.

[ 11-23-2004, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Timber Loftis]

Here, everybody -- Edumacate Yourself.

[Timber Loftis]

Just so you know, since I posted that about 10 minutes ago, our national debt has increased about $22 million. We coulda bought at least 3 whole Spice Girls for that!

[Azred]

After dusting off my economics resources sitting on the bookshelf in my room.... An increase in governmental spending leads most directly only to increased inflation; however, there will also be an increase in investing, which ultimately leads to an increase in output (GDP).
That is the short and sweet textbook answer. Unfortunately, I would rather see a decrease in the money supply; this would decrease GDP in the short term and causes inflationary tendencies to decrease...but the long-term benefits outweigh the short term. At least this way there wouldn't have to be some sort of "tax restructuring" (a nice term for structured tax increase) in a couple of years.

Politicians will be politicians. One of the sad facts of life.

A Spice Girl?! [img]graemlins/erm.gif[/img] I can think of plenty others.... [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

[ 11-23-2004, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: Azred ]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Democracies fail when the people figure out they can simply vote for who will give them the most money once elected. Democracies fail when the elected realize that to stay in power all they need do is sufficiently bribe their constituents.

Fact. Truth. Well done Timber.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by John D Harris: While everybody is crying about the USA's Fed Budget deficit answer me this what is the the percentage of the GDP is the budget deficit of the USA? what is the same for let's say France? or Germany? I beleive you'll find they are about the same percentage.(roughly 3.5-3.6%, see what a nice guy I am I'll even give you the answers, now go forth and try to prove me wrong

What on earth has that got to do with it?

John... would you prefer to have 10% of one million dollars, or have 10% of ten dollars?
Now, would you prefer to be in debt 10% of one million dollars, or 10% of ten dollars?

I don't see how you can use the size of the GDP as some sort of defense. Debt is debt. As Timber so succinclty put it, if banks won't lend you money, you're screwed. Who would lend the USA money? Where is that $800 billion coming from? The debt keeps growing. Where will this stop?

I think you're dreaming John. You've got your head in the sand on this. A depression can put you out of work, make you savings meaningless, and cause you to lose your house. It's not a good legacy to leave your kids.

The party and president you voted for have scewed up the country and you're to proud or one-eyed to see the damage. Time to be a man and realise you made a mistake. Time for example, to realise the war in Iraq needs to stop now - even simply to save money.

There's no point in blindly ranting about how there is no problem.

[Yorick]

This is one subject that will not go away, no matter how many republicans want it to.