A friendly New Year's reminder about the way we conduct ourselves around here...

[Memnoch]

I've noticed a bit of pettiness, cattiness and some generally poor inter-member behaviour around the place lately, so I'd like to encourage everyone to read this - it's a PRECONDITION to participating here.

We want a positive atmosphere here – an atmosphere where everyone is given a fair go no matter what their opinion, be they a conservative or a liberal, or an atheist or a Roman Catholic, or an environmentalist or a capitalist, or whatever. We want it to be a place where we can have some vigorous discussion, but where we can ALL have enough tact to know when enough is enough, when we need to step back from things, and walk away from discussions, either agreeing to disagree, or changing your viewpoint, but in both instances having learned something and having no ill will towards those with opposing viewpoints (ie being able to let bygones be bygones).

That doesn't mean we're removing passion and energy, it doesn't mean we're removing your privilege to hold opposing viewpoints and being able to debate those - you can debate issues and topics as vigorously and passionately as you like. We don't care what your opinion is. The more opinions we have here the better. It provides balance and learning. What we care about is how you present it.

We don't want cheap shots - like people getting personal with sniping or baiting, or carrying on and on and on like pork chops with each other, fighting and namecalling like small children, carrying on petty little feuds, and relying on a moderator to either lock a thread or censure someone. This is when debates go beyond the topic at hand and start getting personal. Adversarial debating is not welcome here - just because this is a current events "serious discussions" discussion forum doesn't mean that you have the right to enforce your opinions on others or make it your personal mission in life to get other people to change theirs, distasteful they may seem to you – you still have to respect your fellow member and realize that they’re entitled to hold the opinion they have. This means you don’t make fun of them, you don’t try and railroad them into changing their view if they don't want to, you don't try and belittle them, and you don’t try and bait them to get them in trouble (I’ve noticed quite a bit of this going on lately). This type of behaviour is juvenile and immature and won’t be tolerated - doesn't matter how new or how much of a forum regular you are.

Anyone is welcome here as long as they treat others with respect. If you don’t feel like you can get involved in a discussion without treating others with respect, or having the self-control and self-confidence to either walk away from the debate if required or agree to disagree with your fellow members in a gracious and mature fashion, or if you feel that you will get personally offended by someone disagreeing with you, and then want to carry on a petty little feud with them in future threads, then I’d suggest you not get involved in any discussions at all. Makes it easier for all concerned.

Cheers, guys. Appreciate your help with this - this forum belongs to all of us. We all have a shared stake in it working the way it was intended to. Let's not risk it disappearing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-04-2004, 05:36 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Timber Loftis]

[img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img] to you, Memsie, Mr. Dangly-Thingie, for your continued policing of this forum. Personally, I am sorry for my recent "contributions" to the problem.

Now go buy your lovely lady friend some dinner and fine wine! We'll be good for a few hours -- PROMISE!

[Memnoch]

Thanks, mate. You've conducted yourself quite well through this whole thing. Thanks for being another voice of reason, and thanks for being one of the few who realise that this forum is about debating opposing viewpoints and keeping your cool, and not being involved in petty feuds, and for being able to let bygones be bygones. Cheers. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by Memnoch: Cheers, guys. Appreciate your help with this - this forum belongs to all of us. We all have a shared stake in it working the way it was intended to. Let's not risk it disappearing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Upon returning from my suspension for being part of a disruptive, petty, personal, feud I really took to heart the value I put in being able to contribute to the exchange of ideas here.

I also took to heart the words of Memnoch, in his explaination for my suspension and I vowed to myself that when confronted with personal pettiness, I would fall back to the rules in any reply I made. I would try to echo the idea that we come here not to attack each other, but to exchange ideas, disagree about concepts, express opinons, and occassionally rant and rave.


This is when I took the forum rules to heart as well and I examined my actions to determine if I was inviting honest discussion with in the boundaries set out by the community, as was and is my intentions. A learning expirience, a growing expirience-these are what I seek in life, and it seems even here in the so-called circular discussion forum, I have found some. Even though sometimes challenging, and being suspended was quite embarresing, I am thankful for it and I am thankful for this forum and the whole of Ironworks.

Now I am taking to heart these words that I have partically quoted by Memnoch.
I feel like I have a stake in this place as part of the community, I feel partially responsible for the place being a frequent participant in serious topics here at IW way before the CE forum was born.

Beleive me, you do not know what you have until it is gone. I "lost" not only the CE forum but the whole place for two weeks and helped caused a ban on one of my favorite topics, and it sucked(s).

Please people, heed Memnochs words and help make/keep this place a nice place. It boils down to our choice whether or not the CE goes the way of the dinosaur.
Please make the right choices.

You may hold me to my word that I state publicly here and now. I will do my part, now and forward into the future, to make the right choices, to heed Memnoch's words and the rules of the forum.

Disagreement need not equal disrespect. Please, no more personal digs and jibes.

Okay, I kinda went on a super ramble session here, blame my love and enjoyment of this forum and the denizens here! [img]smile.gif[/img] ( and a few Guinness stouts) [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Thank you Memnoch and the other mods for the good looking out and for giving us the chance to moderate ourselves. Thank you Ziroc as well.

Peace.

[Cloudbringer]

Chewie, that's a really wonderful post! Takes courage to stand up and say one did something wrong and more to promise to avoid it in the future. My sincere respect for your doing so. Nice to see you back. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I've only just returned from holidays, ready to make my first post in 2 weeks only to find this thread. Of course I had to read it before posting, just in case I was about to do something wrong...!

Whilst it will be interesting to catch up on the last two weeks to find out what caused this, I wonder if there is a place for an unmoderated, or maybe minimally moderated forum at IW - perhaps adults only, with only minimal attention paid to nip trolls in the bud but otherwise allowing religious and/or petty discourse for those brave/silly enough to want it.

anyway, hope you all had a great holiday period. i look forward to tossing my twenty cents about.

cheers

[Memnoch]

Originally posted by sultan: Whilst it will be interesting to catch up on the last two weeks to find out what caused this, I wonder if there is a place for an unmoderated, or maybe minimally moderated forum at IW - perhaps adults only, with only minimal attention paid to nip trolls in the bud but otherwise allowing religious and/or petty discourse for those brave/silly enough to want it.

G'day mate, glad you had a good holiday season. Whilst on first impressions nothing would please us more than to toss all the loonies, flamers and soapboxers in a cage and segregate them from the rest of the forum [img]tongue.gif[/img] , I'm not sure that this would work in the long term and probably isn't within the scope of the overall culture Ziroc wants to have at Ironworks. Aside from the fact that it's effectively impossible to make any forum on the internet "adults-only", I don't think we'd want to have a forum where the perceived behavioural standards are different to the rest of the site. What you're effectively describing sounds a lot like what Usenet is these days - a "no-holds barred" culture, and I don't think that's what this site is about. Ironworks is primarily a gaming forum with a culture of mutual respect between members, and the CE forum, while being a niche forum within this site to cater for people who wanted to get involved in more serious discussions, still has to hold to those basic standards of courtesy.

Besides, I would argue that we can achieve an minimally moderated forum here WITHOUT having to specifically segregate it and say that it's adults only and that it's "no-holds barred". I don't think our expectations of behaviour are excessively strict. We don't overmoderate for the sheer pleasure of moderating - it's NOT fun, trust me. Like a game of footy, the forum is for you guys, not us. If everyone behaves themselves and acts like sensible mature adults in interacting with each other (coincidentally the way most of us behave in RL) then you won't hear from us moderators at all. We only get involved when you can't sort yourselves out, after all. If everyone gets along, and treats everyone with respect, and is able to sort out their own differences between themselves, then then you'll have your "unmoderated" forum where we only ever appear to nip trolls in the bud and otherwise leave you to your own devices.

But I appreciate your suggestion. Cheers, and I hope you guys can understand where we're coming from. Welcome back, and have fun. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-05-2004, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Memnoch ]

[Timber Loftis]

Whilst on first impressions nothing would please us more than to toss all the loonies, flamers and soapboxers in a cage and segregate them from the rest of the forum

You'll never take me alive, you bastatrds!! [img]graemlins/shooter18.gif[/img]

Very funny stuff.

Originally posted by Memnoch: G'day mate, glad you had a good holiday season.

cheers, mate. it's good to be back. [img]smile.gif[/img]

edit: good to see you back, too, chewbacca, especially in such good spirits

[ 01-05-2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: sultan ]

[Chewbacca]

Bump for the original post!

Let us all comment on the topics, not on each other.