Proposal for new law in America

[skywalker]

I think the "entire" world has changed considerably since Sept. 11. The worst thing is that the event has been expoited.

Mark

[Lanthir]

Originally posted by uss: im with you, Link. America should not invade another country because of what happened in the past. you know, Germany is in a living hell. Germans have to pay lotssa cash to jews thanks to Hitlers personal hate against them.

First USS what does that half to do with America? Second it was more than Hitler that caused the problems.

Second, First under US Law there does not have to be a law passed to invade a country at all. The President is the commander in chief of the militray and can order them into action. There is a law that was passed back in the mid 70's that says that congress can order the troops back after 90 days if the President does not provide sufficent reason to the Congress for the action. However, there is concern that this law could be upheld in a court action based on concerns of contitutional seperation of powers. Now what might have happen is a resolution ( which has no power but is just a statement by the senate) against the World Court. I know the Governemtn was against the implimentation fo a permant World Court for War Crimes. They felt that a forgein country could then brign the US President before it. Which seems kinda hypercritical to me. They want foriegn leaders brought there but not ours. Guess they are concerned by how they sometimes treat other countries. Just look at the recent papers released concerning the bomb. Apperantly, when they wree deciding if the should drop it they survied Militray leaders and Presidentail Advisors. Except for General Marshall ( Army Chief of Staff) the opinion was that is shoudl be dropped in an area as uninhabited as they could fine to mimmize casualties among Japenese civilians. Instead the President agaisnt prevailing opinions decided to drop in on Hiroshima with the intent of inflicting the most causulties as possible.

Now back on topic and off the soap box. Armerics Should support the court instead of trying to undermine it. Lets take the governemtns actions after Sept 11 and compare them to say Peru's. The US governemnt decided to suspend the basic legal rights under the contitution and the laws fo this country with regards to terrorists. Such as setting up militray tribunals yet the same Government screamed when Peru tried an American terrorist by a Military Tribunal. The foced Peru to have a new civilian trial. Oh what wsa the evidence against the girl in Peru. Well see took pictures of a target for the terriost lived with them help provide cover identification for them and help provide funds for their operations. Which sounds a lot more like a terrorist than say the hundreds of Middle Easterners and Americans of Middle Eastern decent being detained without benifit of consule simply becasue they are Arabs or Arab Americans. Look at the new propsed law they will fingerprint all Middle Easterners entering this counrty now. It would seem that it woudl be fair if they did ALL individuals entering this country. doesn't thsi remind you of the Japenese internment camps here durign WWII

[ 06-10-2002, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Lanthir ]

[Sir ReGiN]

Originally posted by John D Harris: In theory maybe, but in reality it would never work. Look at the bureuracracy and the problems it would cause. only a small part of our bureuracracy ever came in contact with any information about possible terrorist attacks, and look at what happened. Now imagine a worldwide burueracracy, instead of 1,000's or 10,000's of people you got 10,000,000's or 100,000,000's people all with "their dog in the fight" (southern expression for interests) can you see what kind of "Charlie Foxtrot" that would be? We got some countries where the leaders (parlament members, national assembly members etc get into fist fights over issues on the floor of their assemblies. One world gov't will eventually come about, unless we destroy ourselves first, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that cause I never have any good luck Now how will the political power be set up? one country one vote? Why would a highly populated country go for that? Number of votes based on population of countries? Why would a lightly populated country go for that? The only way I see it working is to set it up like the US consitution 2 houses one based on population, one based on one country one vote. Both Houses must agree. Then approved by an Exectutive. But that only will work if all people have the freedom of the western countries. Now how are you going to get say China, or Iraq, or any of the other oppressive gov't leaders to give up their power? Are they just going to turn it over out of the "goodness of their hearts"? I submitt if they had any "goodness of their hearts" they wouldn't be oppressive gov't leaders!

I won't go in to any discussion wether they're oppressed or not, just know I disagree
And I wasn't talking about a one-world government, I was talking about taking away a big part of the US powers and military and strenghten the alliances that exist today. The UN for example.
The US just seem to edgy to be in control of such huge powers.

Originally posted by John D Harris: As for the war on terrorism, it does not give the USA the power to basicly kill any one it thinks is a terrorist. What gives the USA that power is the same thing that gives ALL COUNTRIES that power. Weapons and the will to use them! As Satlin once said about the Pope's complaining when the USSR invaded Hungary "How many divisions does the Pope have in the Field?" The war on terrorism is the reason/ justifaction for the attacks, but does not give the power.

But it's not just about picking up a weapon and go out shooting anyone.
It's about uniting a large number of countries in the war against any country the US says hosts terrorists. And this has started a chain-reaction all over the world. Ariel Sharon has now figured the palestinians are not just freedom-fighters but that they are terrorists, which will probarbly give Israel the US approval of wiping them out, and definetly not accept any of their terms of negotiation.
India's prime-minister is now calling the Pakistanians terrorists, and the pkaistanians call Indians terrorists. All of a sudden everybody's a terrorist because then the ones who fight them will get the good will of the US.

Originally posted by johnny: all i was saying is that after sep.11 paranoia is getting the upperhand. i never heard discussions like this before that date. What planet was i on ? A much more adhese one, thank you very much.

Same here! I know the world I lived in prior to Sept 11 was much calmer and people were much more at peace with each other. It has changed, the situation has been exploited, and the very subject of this thread is proof that its not the same.

Prior to 9/11 people didn't have to be afraid of being from the Middle East but living in America, people didn't have to be afraid to be Muslims in America, people did not have to be afraid of being spied on in their churches by the FBI, people weren't so afraid to fly, people didn't have any real concerns about how competent airport security was, people weren't afraid of unidentified white powders, they weren't afraid to open their mail, work for the post office or a tabloid newspaper or worry that their government would try to pass into effect a law that would allow them to invade another country simply because they don't want to work with a united judicial system in which they or their people might be fingered for commiting crimes! There have been considerable changes that have taken place on this planet in the last 9 months.

Where can we buy tickets to go to this "same old world it always was"?
I'd like to see that place!

[ 06-10-2002, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: Moni ]

[norompanlasolas]

its a brave new world we are living in, and i dont think i like it very much.

[johnny]

Moni, that's what i'm talking about. I have some relatives who travel a lot by plane, and since sep 11 they're constantly looking out for suspicious looking arabs, isn't that paranoia at it's best ? They never did those kind of things before. So yeah, the world has changed quite a bit, for all of us.

[caleb]

Originally posted by Moni: Where can we buy tickets to go to this "same old world it always was"? I'd like to see that place!

Go straight down the road then make a left on denial street

Originally posted by caleb: quote: Originally posted by Moni: Where can we buy tickets to go to this "same old world it always was"? I'd like to see that place!

Go straight down the road then make a left on denial street [/QUOTE]You are oh so very right on so many levels dude [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ok Rant mode on [img]graemlins/fight.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/2gunfire.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rambo.gif[/img]

Nothing has changed in the world since september 11 2001 except that America and Americans were introduced into the world that was being inhabited by everyone else. Terrorist attacks were not all that uncommon in europe and elsewhere, just now Americans have to realize what happens when you slash your defense and intelligence budgets year after year after year.

We got lazy as a nation and got zapped big time for it. As for worries that the FBI can go into church and watch you...guess what. They always could (they aren't called places of public worship for nothing). In the past they just couldnt use any of that info against you. The new laws allows the law enforcement people to actually USE the information they get(and have always had the ability to get) that will lead them to criminals, whereas before, if they found an email detailing a drug shipment, they coulldn't do anything about it.

Some one mentioned that America needs to have its Armies and power taken from it...that sort of misses the detail that no one gave it to us in the first place, we created that power. In order to take it away you better be packing bigger muscle than the ones you want to take things from. All in all for the amount of raw power that the USA has, it has been very very restrained and reletively benign in the use of that power, as opposed to other super powers in history.

The USA has never just gone out and decided to take control of any territories it might want, and that is mainly due to the nature of the people and the government of America, not some fear of another power. (talking modern history not of when we were still european immigrants stealing land form native americans).

The world is still the same, The difference is, now Americans aren't living in a fantasy world anymore...the blinders are off.

In the Immortal words of Douglas Adams

Don't Panic

So its changed....for Americans.
Now for the Netherlands as well.
There is no denial street [img]tongue.gif[/img]
Things have changed!