New Russian Jet MPEG -- Amazing!

Originally posted by John D Harris: Sir Tainly, I agree the reason the USSR built the MIG 25 was to counter the B-70. I was talking about the USAF's reason for the F-15, or at least the publicly stated reason was to counter the MIG 25. The fight your fight comment comes from Robert S. Johnson an American ace in WWII (27 or 28 kills) RSJ flew a P-47 against the ME 109 & FW(forgot the #), both German planes could out turn and out manuver the P-47. RSJ got his kills from using his advantages and not alowing the German pilots to use theirs. RSJ in his book "Thunderbolt" says that nothing in the air (that the Germans had at that time) could roll or dive with the P-47. "Thunderbolt" is an interesting book if you like war bio's. RSJ tells of a time his P-47 was damaged and he was trying to get back to England a ME 109 saw him and thought he had an easy kill. The ME 109 got RSJ in his sights and fired a couple of brusts into the P-47. RSJ cuold feel the 20mm canon shells hitting the armour plate behind his seat. After the bursts the German pilot flew beside RSJ and looked at the damaged P-47 shook his head then lined up for another shot at RSJ. The German pilot repeated this shoot then fly in formation to look at what was holding the P-47 in the air until his guns were empty. The German pilot escorted RSJ over the coast of France at low altitude, and over the teeth of the German AA guns. I guess the German pilot figured that if he couldn't shoot RSJ down He wasn't going to let anyone else do it. Over the English Channel the German tipped his wings, shook his head, waved good bye, and headed back to his base.

Amazing the P-47 was indeed a tough bird IIRC the P47 had an significant climbing advantage because of its propellor design. Against both the FW190 and the Me109 you have to remember that both German designs were far older and without the design pedigree. The Thunderbolt had come from the earlier P-35, the Lancer and the Guardsman, only the Me109 had significant heritage in the Me108 "Taifun". Also German pilots were also inhibited by the fact that the Fuhrer had expressed his desire to see all Aircraft with bombing ability, so often German aircraft were slowed by bomb racks. The rack it a significant weight drag penalty even without the bomb

Never the less the P47 would bot have been so succesful if it was for well trained pilots, as had already been said elsewhere.

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Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

[Gaelic]

The only bits of that that are real useful are the rapid 180 degree reversals of direction. Our aircraft can stall in similar fashion and recover like the video showed. The end over end tumble is neat but may not be real useful in a fight.



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Gaelic

[Gaelic]

Oh yeah, stealth can be seen by pulse radar at low levels (that's my understanding anyway). But only a few countries have it. The technology does not render the aircraft invisable, it just reduces the signature to something very small that theoretically could be seen by other radar.



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Gaelic

[Staralfur]

Originally posted by Gaelic: Oh yeah, stealth can be seen by pulse radar at low levels (that's my understanding anyway). But only a few countries have it. The technology does not render the aircraft invisable, it just reduces the signature to something very small that theoretically could be seen by other radar.

I thought it theoretically shows up on any radar, but small signatures are filtered out automatically as they could easily just be a flock of birds, or other such non military target. So it's just a question of sensitivity.

Also if you can make something appear smaller on radar, can you make something appear bigger?

[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Sir_Tainly: Amazing the P-47 was indeed a tough bird IIRC the P47 had an significant climbing advantage because of its propellor design. Against both the FW190 and the Me109 you have to remember that both German designs were far older and without the design pedigree. The Thunderbolt had come from the earlier P-35, the Lancer and the Guardsman, only the Me109 had significant heritage in the Me108 "Taifun". Also German pilots were also inhibited by the fact that the Fuhrer had expressed his desire to see all Aircraft with bombing ability, so often German aircraft were slowed by bomb racks. The rack it a significant weight drag penalty even without the bomb Never the less the P47 would bot have been so succesful if it was for well trained pilots, as had already been said elsewhere.

Sir Tainly , The propellar improvment on the P-47 if I remember correctly was borrowed from the RAF, the original prop. on the P-47 was a thin 4 blade prop. After looking at the Spitfire the US Army Air Corp. switched to a broad 4 blade prop.
Sometimes us young whippersnappers can learn something from mom



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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[caleb]

Just wanted to say you lost me a page ago.....okay back to your mechanical talk.

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Welcome to hell.

[Gaelic]

The radars can filter out the smaller signatures, but the settings can be adjusted to see smaller things, but you get a ton of clutter. As for making things look larger, I assume that would be possible, theoretically. I am not sure how it would be done. Vibrations or something, I suppose.




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Gaelic

Originally posted by Gaelic: The radars can filter out the smaller signatures, but the settings can be adjusted to see smaller things, but you get a ton of clutter. As for making things look larger, I assume that would be possible, theoretically. I am not sure how it would be done. Vibrations or something, I suppose.

Well it has been said that Stealth aircraft can be located by triangulation via mutliple radar sites. Since a stealth plane only absorbs some of the radiation and deflects the rest, by using one radar to transmit and others to recieve the stealth can be located in this way. I have no idea if this method is viable as I don't know if enough radiation is reflected. It was this idea that prompted stories about the Chinese building TVs with special recievers to pick up the radiation and then send this interference data to a special collating station. The idea being that if a stealth plane flew over China, it would deflect the radiation and affect TV siganls. Since China is densely populated thousands of TV would register the interference and would thus give an idication of the location of the stealth. Again I don't know if this was media hype or not.

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Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger

[Gaelic]

I believe pulse radar works on that principle. However, I am dubious of the Chinese TV thing for several reasons. First, I figure that would send so much energy into the air as to render much other transmissions kaput. Second, the command, control, and monitering of such a system would require enormous expense, manpower, and coordination. It would probably give plenty of false alarms as well. Third, system calibration, which is critical, would be next to impossible. Finally, in order to find out, all we would have to do is send some embassy secratary in Bejing down to the local TV shop, buy a set, and take it apart. If it IS true, I'd be pretty impressed. Though that doesn't take much. I'm still impressed by DSL modem connections.





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Gaelic

Originally posted by Gaelic: I believe pulse radar works on that principle. However, I am dubious of the Chinese TV thing for several reasons. First, I figure that would send so much energy into the air as to render much other transmissions kaput. Second, the command, control, and monitering of such a system would require enormous expense, manpower, and coordination. It would probably give plenty of false alarms as well. Third, system calibration, which is critical, would be next to impossible. Finally, in order to find out, all we would have to do is send some embassy secratary in Bejing down to the local TV shop, buy a set, and take it apart. If it IS true, I'd be pretty impressed. Though that doesn't take much. I'm still impressed by DSL modem connections.

Have you seen new TVs? They have so many options that no one knows how to use, you could hide a ballistic missile control in there and no would know

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Holy Avenger of the OHF and part time Pinguindiebjäger