Another Dual -Class question

kartetse · 10-16-2003, 02:00 AM

I've got an Abjurer specialized Mage up to level 5 now and I've been wondering about the wisdom in dual-classing him to a cleric. I'm not expereinced and I wonder what your advice on this might be. I don't have another cleric in the team except, technically speaking, for two paladins.

Love to hear your opinions!]

Kartetse

moiraine sedai · 10-16-2003, 08:49 AM

Kartetse,

Clerics are always useful to have hanging around, one for their healing ability and two for their ability to trun/destroy undead (which is VERY handy in HoW on the Burial Isle).

If that abjurer is your only mage, then definitely don't dual class. Mages can become very powerful when they get up some levels...

Ulitimately, it's your choice. I can't tell you what to do.

Do you have HoW installed?

Hope this helps,

Moiraine Sedai

NobleNick · 10-16-2003, 03:23 PM

Kartetse,

As moiraine sedai suggested, you are going to want some Cleric power by the time you get to HoW... and likely WELL before then.

I find your choice of two Paladins curious. If I were you I would lose one and make a Fighter/Cleric dual class (DC to Cleric at Fighter 9).

I like your choice to do a specialized Mage. I forget, however, what the opposition schools are for an Abjuror. Hopefully your Mage can throw fireballs and summon monsters.

What's a party,
Without a song?
Bard's ROCK!
Party On!!

kartetse · 10-17-2003, 02:01 AM

Yah, help me here, I think I've got a good combo going. The reason for two paladins comes from my experience with games like warcraft III. They can heal others and they can heal each other, a reciprosity that goes a long way. Then, paladins can also turn undead, they're basically half mast clerics in that sense, so if I'm correct the two main advantages of a cleric mentioned by venerable Moraine Sedai is there in simple form but also doubled (2 paladins). Then, as far as the abjurer goes, another gut-feel guess, to specialize in Abjuration was to bolster my party's overall defenses (aparantly the strength or Abjurers). My experience with strategy (games) has been that the ability to sometimes outlast your enemy helps, it allows you more chances to hit at him.

BTW. the rest of my party consists of two ladies and a gentlemen:
1) a lady elf ranger which does valuable service with a outstandng quality heavy crossbow,
2) a lady gnome professional thief, as good as you get them (neutral good

)
3) a dwarven fighter gentlemen, who enjoys making shortwork of baddies with his electric halberd.

Oh yes, and except for my lady thief, all of them are lawfull good - call me idealistic, but there you have it!

Thanks for your feedback sofar, much appreciated!

Kartetse

Sonic · 10-17-2003, 02:07 PM

Hmm i dount realy see whye you NEED a cleric when you got 2 paladins.They can heal,they can cast spells,they can turn unded.So a paladin is maybi a 45% cleric.And if im not wrong a ranger can cast healing spells to.so my opinion is you dount *NeeD* a cleric when you got 2 paladins and 1 ranger.so keep on exping up your Wizard.

kartetse · 10-19-2003, 08:01 AM

Guys, thanks for your advice! I'll keep my mage focused on what's at hand

Sonic · 10-19-2003, 11:27 AM

No problem and good luck

NobleNick · 10-20-2003, 04:00 PM

kartetse,

Yours are not the choices I'd make; but I can't deny the logic presented above: It seems as though you have a viable party mix. In addition to everything else said, the high saving throws on the Paladins make them good, magic-resistant front line fighters and tanks.

Abjuration spells are the ones I use least; BUT your Specialist's school is not nearly as important as their opposition school. (Remember, when you pick a school, you are really picking the opposition schools; since a Necromancer has no advantage over, say an Abjuror, in memorizing a Necromancy spell.) A table of the opposition schools for HoW and Pre-HoW can be found here: http://noctalis.com/dis/icewind/lvl-m.shtml .

Example: I almost made the mistake of picking a Conjuror as my single specialist Mage, since I wanted to be able to summon monsters, but the Conjuror's opposition school is Evocation (a.k.a. Invocation) which includes almost the complete set of really useful offensive spells (like Fireball!). I picked an Illusionist instead, who could conjure just as well as any Conjuror, but also kept the Evocation spells as well. My Illusionist loses Abjuration (which, since I believe in the best defense being a good offense, I don't give a rip about) and Necromancy (the only thing that really hurts here is Skull Trap). I always travel with a Bard or another DC Fighter/Mage with mage school selected such that between the two Mages, all schools are covered.

The Abjuror's opposition schools (assuming HoW is installed) are Illusion and Alteration, which means you lose such useful spells as Dimension Door, Blur, Mirror Image, Invisibility, and Improved Invisibility; but you can still summon meat shields (very important and oft used defensive spell), throw Fireballs and Magic Missiles (an offensive Mage's meat and potatoes), set Skull Traps (a very useful offensive and defensive spell) and cast all the other neat Evocation spells like Ice, Acid, etc. Storms. So, looks like you're set!

What's a party,
Without a song?
Bard's ROCK!
Party On!!

[ 10-20-2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

kartetse · 10-21-2003, 07:06 AM

Sonic, NobleNick, thanks! Your ascertations were of much value, although my party is not perfect I feel more aware of its weaknesses and strengths, which gives me greater confidence, and we will carry the standard forward!

Great! Thanks!

Kartetse

pritchke · 10-21-2003, 11:58 AM

"although my party is not perfect"

Of course not, no one ever really has a perfect party. One of the reasons that this game has replayability is to try different parties of various types and sizes, and see what party you think you like best. No one will ever agree on the best party, and therefore there can be no perfect party. Just play, and have fun creating and building your characters.

[ 10-21-2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

10-16-2003, 08:49 AM	#2
moiraine sedai Zhentarim Guard Join Date: January 25, 2003 Location: Tar Valon Age: 39 Posts: 335	Kartetse, Clerics are always useful to have hanging around, one for their healing ability and two for their ability to trun/destroy undead (which is VERY handy in HoW on the Burial Isle). If that abjurer is your only mage, then definitely don't dual class. Mages can become very powerful when they get up some levels... Ulitimately, it's your choice. I can't tell you what to do. Do you have HoW installed? Hope this helps, Moiraine Sedai __________________ ~The wheel weaves as the wheel wills~

10-17-2003, 02:07 PM	#5
Sonic Zhentarim Guard Join Date: July 9, 2003 Location: Amn Age: 34 Posts: 352	Hmm i dount realy see whye you NEED a cleric when you got 2 paladins.They can heal,they can cast spells,they can turn unded.So a paladin is maybi a 45% cleric.And if im not wrong a ranger can cast healing spells to.so my opinion is you dount NeeD a cleric when you got 2 paladins and 1 ranger.so keep on exping up your Wizard. __________________ Never Underestimate Your Enemy.<br /><br />A Normal Dagger in the right hand\'s is as Dangerous as Crom Faeyr.

10-19-2003, 11:27 AM	#7
Sonic Zhentarim Guard Join Date: July 9, 2003 Location: Amn Age: 34 Posts: 352	No problem and good luck __________________ Never Underestimate Your Enemy.<br /><br />A Normal Dagger in the right hand\'s is as Dangerous as Crom Faeyr.

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10-16-2003, 02:00 AM	#1
kartetse The Magister Join Date: October 10, 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 54 Posts: 114	I've got an Abjurer specialized Mage up to level 5 now and I've been wondering about the wisdom in dual-classing him to a cleric. I'm not expereinced and I wonder what your advice on this might be. I don't have another cleric in the team except, technically speaking, for two paladins. Love to hear your opinions!] Kartetse

10-16-2003, 03:23 PM	#3
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	Kartetse, As moiraine sedai suggested, you are going to want some Cleric power by the time you get to HoW... and likely WELL before then. I find your choice of two Paladins curious. If I were you I would lose one and make a Fighter/Cleric dual class (DC to Cleric at Fighter 9). I like your choice to do a specialized Mage. I forget, however, what the opposition schools are for an Abjuror. Hopefully your Mage can throw fireballs and summon monsters. What's a party, Without a song? Bard's ROCK! Party On!!

10-17-2003, 02:01 AM	#4
kartetse The Magister Join Date: October 10, 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 54 Posts: 114	Yah, help me here, I think I've got a good combo going. The reason for two paladins comes from my experience with games like warcraft III. They can heal others and they can heal each other, a reciprosity that goes a long way. Then, paladins can also turn undead, they're basically half mast clerics in that sense, so if I'm correct the two main advantages of a cleric mentioned by venerable Moraine Sedai is there in simple form but also doubled (2 paladins). Then, as far as the abjurer goes, another gut-feel guess, to specialize in Abjuration was to bolster my party's overall defenses (aparantly the strength or Abjurers). My experience with strategy (games) has been that the ability to sometimes outlast your enemy helps, it allows you more chances to hit at him. BTW. the rest of my party consists of two ladies and a gentlemen: 1) a lady elf ranger which does valuable service with a outstandng quality heavy crossbow, 2) a lady gnome professional thief, as good as you get them (neutral good ) 3) a dwarven fighter gentlemen, who enjoys making shortwork of baddies with his electric halberd. Oh yes, and except for my lady thief, all of them are lawfull good - call me idealistic, but there you have it! Thanks for your feedback sofar, much appreciated! Kartetse

10-19-2003, 08:01 AM	#6
kartetse The Magister Join Date: October 10, 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 54 Posts: 114	Guys, thanks for your advice! I'll keep my mage focused on what's at hand

10-20-2003, 04:00 PM	#8
NobleNick Quintesson Join Date: February 5, 2002 Location: Huntsville, AL, USA Age: 63 Posts: 1,045	kartetse, Yours are not the choices I'd make; but I can't deny the logic presented above: It seems as though you have a viable party mix. In addition to everything else said, the high saving throws on the Paladins make them good, magic-resistant front line fighters and tanks. Abjuration spells are the ones I use least; BUT your Specialist's school is not nearly as important as their opposition school. (Remember, when you pick a school, you are really picking the opposition schools; since a Necromancer has no advantage over, say an Abjuror, in memorizing a Necromancy spell.) A table of the opposition schools for HoW and Pre-HoW can be found here: http://noctalis.com/dis/icewind/lvl-m.shtml . Example: I almost made the mistake of picking a Conjuror as my single specialist Mage, since I wanted to be able to summon monsters, but the Conjuror's opposition school is Evocation (a.k.a. Invocation) which includes almost the complete set of really useful offensive spells (like Fireball!). I picked an Illusionist instead, who could conjure just as well as any Conjuror, but also kept the Evocation spells as well. My Illusionist loses Abjuration (which, since I believe in the best defense being a good offense, I don't give a rip about) and Necromancy (the only thing that really hurts here is Skull Trap). I always travel with a Bard or another DC Fighter/Mage with mage school selected such that between the two Mages, all schools are covered. The Abjuror's opposition schools (assuming HoW is installed) are Illusion and Alteration, which means you lose such useful spells as Dimension Door, Blur, Mirror Image, Invisibility, and Improved Invisibility; but you can still summon meat shields (very important and oft used defensive spell), throw Fireballs and Magic Missiles (an offensive Mage's meat and potatoes), set Skull Traps (a very useful offensive and defensive spell) and cast all the other neat Evocation spells like Ice, Acid, etc. Storms. So, looks like you're set! What's a party, Without a song? Bard's ROCK! Party On!! [ 10-20-2003, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: NobleNick ]

10-21-2003, 07:06 AM	#9
kartetse The Magister Join Date: October 10, 2003 Location: New Zealand Age: 54 Posts: 114	Sonic, NobleNick, thanks! Your ascertations were of much value, although my party is not perfect I feel more aware of its weaknesses and strengths, which gives me greater confidence, and we will carry the standard forward! Great! Thanks! Kartetse

10-21-2003, 11:58 AM	#10
pritchke Bastet - Egyptian Cat Goddess Join Date: September 5, 2001 Location: Calgary, AB Age: 49 Posts: 3,491	"although my party is not perfect" Of course not, no one ever really has a perfect party. One of the reasons that this game has replayability is to try different parties of various types and sizes, and see what party you think you like best. No one will ever agree on the best party, and therefore there can be no perfect party. Just play, and have fun creating and building your characters. [ 10-21-2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: pritchke ]

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