Children

Moiraine · 03-28-2003, 05:38 AM

I read in the French newspapers this morning that there has been a huge increase of racist incidents in schools in 2002 and 2003, mainly directed at Jews and Muslims.

What we adults are showing our children right now with the war is that it is right to use violence against people in the name of good - in the name of what one believes is good. These kids are the future of the world, our future. One of the strongest reasons I am against the war is the terrible example we give them, and I am very sad and afraid of what they will make of our world when they are grown up.

Masklinn · 03-28-2003, 05:59 AM

They will do the exact same thing we're currently doing...

Martin Luther King was right, this cycle needs to be broken somewhere or we're going right into the wall...

johnny · 03-28-2003, 06:22 AM

This is nothing new Moiraine. Ever since humans walk the earth, they are giving bad examples to children. And when those children are grownups, they do exactly the same thing. Century after century...after century....after century. Racism isn't exactly new either. That too has always existed, and always will.

Moiraine · 03-28-2003, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johnny:
This is nothing new Moiraine. Ever since humans walk the earth, they are giving bad examples to children. And when those children are grownups, they do exactly the same thing. Century after century...after century....after century. Racism isn't exactly new either. That too has always existed, and always will.

Johnny, I am not naïve. Of course, racism and violence have always existed. But I disagree that they always will - it is up to us to start the long path towards their disappearance. We have minds after all - let's use those. And maybe that long journey could start by us not showing kids the bad example.

Thoran · 03-28-2003, 08:41 AM

Humanity is incapable of changing overnight... true change will require generations. As I think I said on a previous post, I'm encouraged by the current nature of conflicts that things ARE improving. Look at the past, it wasn't too many years ago that 60,000 would die in a single BATTLE of a war, and this was considered "acceptable losses". Today this war is being criticized for 30 or 40 casualties... almost half of which were in ACCIDENTS. Public opinion is so important that our military must go extrordinarily out of it's way to avoid civilian casualties, to the point where in an entire week of heavy bombing there is ONE incident that the opposition has shown where civilians were injured... and that one is just as likely an act of a desperate dictator. There is a second incident (the bus) that the coalition took responsibility for. Compared to the nationwide destruction of past bombing campaigns this is an impressive feat (probably not so impressive to the folks in the bus though

).

Conflict has been with us forever, and it's not going to disappear instantly. Have patience and look at the changes that have already occurred. It may seem like the whole world is in conflict these days, but compared to a hundred or two hundred years ago these spat's are small indeed.

If we can avoid self-destruction for a few more generations we may actually make it. I'm not trying to justify this or any war, I'm just saying that the world IS different than it was in the past, and the changes have been for the better.

Indemaijinj · 03-28-2003, 09:48 AM

I don't think it will just require generations.

I think it will require a brand new species (of humans that is).

lasher · 03-28-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Today this war is being criticized for 30 or 40 casualties... almost half of which were in ACCIDENTS. [/QB]

Plus the Iraqis.

Thoran · 03-28-2003, 10:50 AM

I was thinking along the lines of coalition casualties and reaction, but even including Iraqi casualties (which no one seems to know) you're not talking about a huge number considering the number of sorties flown. If you include historical civilian casualties vs. Iraqi civilian casualties then the difference is even more stunning. It wasn't too long ago that civilians were considered legitimate targets during wartime because they supported the opposing force. When a military force got into the civilian population centers of the opposing side, VERY bad things often happened.

Indemaijinj, As far as "another species will be needed", it's certainly a possibility. I tend to be optimistic about it for the most part, but some days I agree with you.

johnny · 03-28-2003, 02:16 PM

It would be nice if you were right Moiraine, but i'm afraid it's only wishful thinking. I know... i know, i'm being pessimistic... i need a beer.

Wutang · 03-28-2003, 04:02 PM

Moraine - you hit the nail on the head. The cycle has to stop somewhere but wonder who will step up first.

And you don't have to look far in Africa to see the never-ending cycle of tribal civil wars going on.

I think many have been fighting for so long that the real meaning of the conflict has been lost.

What's ironic is that humans started fighting each other with clubs and bones and I think we may end up doing that again.

[ 03-28-2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Wutang ]

03-28-2003, 05:38 AM	#1
Moiraine Anubis Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Up in the Freedomland Alps Age: 59 Posts: 2,474	I read in the French newspapers this morning that there has been a huge increase of racist incidents in schools in 2002 and 2003, mainly directed at Jews and Muslims. What we adults are showing our children right now with the war is that it is right to use violence against people in the name of good - in the name of what one believes is good. These kids are the future of the world, our future. One of the strongest reasons I am against the war is the terrible example we give them, and I am very sad and afraid of what they will make of our world when they are grown up. __________________ [img]\"http://grumble.free.fr/img/romuald.gif\" alt=\" - \" /><br /><br />The missing link between ape and man is us.

03-28-2003, 05:59 AM	#2
Masklinn Avatar Join Date: January 12, 2003 Location: Paris, France Age: 44 Posts: 594	They will do the exact same thing we're currently doing... Martin Luther King was right, this cycle needs to be broken somewhere or we're going right into the wall... __________________ <br /><br />-=roaar=-

03-28-2003, 06:22 AM	#3
johnny 40th Level Warrior Join Date: April 15, 2002 Location: Utrecht The Netherlands Age: 58 Posts: 16,981	This is nothing new Moiraine. Ever since humans walk the earth, they are giving bad examples to children. And when those children are grownups, they do exactly the same thing. Century after century...after century....after century. Racism isn't exactly new either. That too has always existed, and always will. __________________

03-28-2003, 09:48 AM	#6
Indemaijinj Symbol of Cyric Join Date: June 15, 2002 Location: Denmark Age: 43 Posts: 1,163	I don't think it will just require generations. I think it will require a brand new species (of humans that is). __________________ The Bleak Caballero<br /><br />Proud and original member (and secret admirer) of the Pro-Mazzy movement.

03-28-2003, 02:16 PM	#9
johnny 40th Level Warrior Join Date: April 15, 2002 Location: Utrecht The Netherlands Age: 58 Posts: 16,981	It would be nice if you were right Moiraine, but i'm afraid it's only wishful thinking. I know... i know, i'm being pessimistic... i need a beer. __________________

03-28-2003, 08:41 AM	#5
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	Humanity is incapable of changing overnight... true change will require generations. As I think I said on a previous post, I'm encouraged by the current nature of conflicts that things ARE improving. Look at the past, it wasn't too many years ago that 60,000 would die in a single BATTLE of a war, and this was considered "acceptable losses". Today this war is being criticized for 30 or 40 casualties... almost half of which were in ACCIDENTS. Public opinion is so important that our military must go extrordinarily out of it's way to avoid civilian casualties, to the point where in an entire week of heavy bombing there is ONE incident that the opposition has shown where civilians were injured... and that one is just as likely an act of a desperate dictator. There is a second incident (the bus) that the coalition took responsibility for. Compared to the nationwide destruction of past bombing campaigns this is an impressive feat (probably not so impressive to the folks in the bus though ). Conflict has been with us forever, and it's not going to disappear instantly. Have patience and look at the changes that have already occurred. It may seem like the whole world is in conflict these days, but compared to a hundred or two hundred years ago these spat's are small indeed. If we can avoid self-destruction for a few more generations we may actually make it. I'm not trying to justify this or any war, I'm just saying that the world IS different than it was in the past, and the changes have been for the better.

03-28-2003, 10:50 AM	#8
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 56 Posts: 2,109	I was thinking along the lines of coalition casualties and reaction, but even including Iraqi casualties (which no one seems to know) you're not talking about a huge number considering the number of sorties flown. If you include historical civilian casualties vs. Iraqi civilian casualties then the difference is even more stunning. It wasn't too long ago that civilians were considered legitimate targets during wartime because they supported the opposing force. When a military force got into the civilian population centers of the opposing side, VERY bad things often happened. Indemaijinj, As far as "another species will be needed", it's certainly a possibility. I tend to be optimistic about it for the most part, but some days I agree with you.

03-28-2003, 04:02 PM	#10
Wutang Manshoon Join Date: February 3, 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 206	Moraine - you hit the nail on the head. The cycle has to stop somewhere but wonder who will step up first. And you don't have to look far in Africa to see the never-ending cycle of tribal civil wars going on. I think many have been fighting for so long that the real meaning of the conflict has been lost. What's ironic is that humans started fighting each other with clubs and bones and I think we may end up doing that again. [ 03-28-2003, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Wutang ] __________________ Hula dancer lover!

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