Should you smack your children?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Yorick: The danger in smacking a child in anger, is that the child remembers the punishment itself, not the action they were punished for. It also creates a fear of the parent. Fear and love are opposite. One of the nicest guys I know had such a loving relationship with his young son, that the mere shift in vocal tone - to light disapproval - brought the child to tears, and necessary action reversal. Positive impetus is much stronger than negative impetus.

The key to proper child rearing is to not punish while angry..take time to calm down and then handle the task of punishment in a rational way, wether spanking or time out or any other method you wish to use.[/QUOTE]"Proper child rearing" is subjective, but I shall follow the thinking for now.

Yes, in an ideal world a parent wouldn't be angry with their childs misbehaviour and the annoyances they bring. They also wouldn't have the pressures of career or marriage simmering under the surface. Yes, in an ideal world, a parent would give a single cold smack, hard enough to reprimand, yet light enough to show love and restraint.

But this is not an ideal world. It is too easy to cross the line when physicality is used in conjunction with stress and anger.
The question of age is another variable. For a very young child a smack may be the answer, but when do you stop?

When they understand words?
When they understand reason?
When they are able to run away?
When they are able to hit back?

Also, does a father smack his son, and not his daughter?
Sexism? Inequality? Potential sibling resentment? An open door for a sister to get their brother hit?

Far better IMO to have a blanket "no smacking" policy, for we do not live in an ideal world. It is too easy to cross a line.

The slogans that pushed the attitude: "It's never, ever acceptable to hit a woman" have done much to reduce male to female spousal abuse.

It seems we have a way to go in female to male spousal abuse, and parent to child abuse.

If a line is in danger of being crossed, remove it altogether.

How about this?

It is never, ever acceptable to hit a human.

[ 05-17-2002, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

Originally posted by MagiK: Caleb, Im not even goiong to reply to you any more.[/QB]

Ooooh! Me too, me too! pleeeeeease?

Originally posted by Absynthe: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Caleb, Im not even goiong to reply to you any more.

Ooooh! Me too, me too! pleeeeeease?[/QB][/QUOTE]Nope nope, see Im pretty sure that YOU are out of diapers and are worth talking to...some times So you will just have to be prepared to have me respond to you at irregular intervals. [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img]

[ 05-17-2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Yorick: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Tal, most children arent quite as well behaved and logical as you seem to be. More often than not trying to use logic on a child is wasted breath. Human beings are not vulcans. If logic would work on even half of humainty the world would be a vastly different place...unfortunately I think your thoughts may be of a utopia that does not exist.

MagiK, that line of thinking supports the noncorporal punishment argument.

For the punishment to work, it is assumed the child has the logical powers to associate the pain with the misdemeanor. However, the stronger, simpler logic is that the pain is associated with the inflicter.

This of course assumes that beating a child is a punishment, and not gratituous release of frustration on behalf of the parent.[/QUOTE]Sorry Yorick, I have spent quite enough time explainging my side of the issue, im not going to try and revisit the whole thing. All Ill say is that in MY experience with the children I interact with, "talk" just doesnt cut it.. They understand spanking far better than a logical disertation.

Originally posted by MagiK: Nope nope, see Im pretty sure that YOU are out of diapers and are worth talking to...some times So you will just have to be prepared to have me respond to you at irregular intervals. [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img] [/QB]

Ah, poop! You NEVER give me what I want... you like Caleb better, don't you?

[The.Relic]

Hmm, now when my lil ones were in diapers, I thought they were adorable and well worth "baby-jabbering-googooing" with. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by Talthyr Malkaviel: No positive value anyway, and then the child will just think that you are hitting them and being nasty to them, if they, as you say Magik, aren't very logical and will only obey out of fear.

In that case My children are just geniuses and understand the spanking idea quite well. You can assail my logic by ignoring every other post made and then pick things apart on paper, but in real life, my methods work...results oriented goals work for me. Im not going to make a full repeat of previous posts every time someone makes the same old argument that was covered 5 pages ago...or 6 or 7 or 9

Oh and Logic does NOT equate to understanding. Humans of all ages are irrational beings.

[ 05-17-2002, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

Originally posted by Absynthe: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Nope nope, see Im pretty sure that YOU are out of diapers and are worth talking to...some times So you will just have to be prepared to have me respond to you at irregular intervals. [img]graemlins/kiss.gif[/img]

Ah, poop! You NEVER give me what I want... you like Caleb better, don't you?[/QB][/QUOTE]I promise, I really will try to give you something you want some day ...Im not allowed to discuss certain juveniles whose names begin with the letter C however.

Originally posted by The.Relic: Hmm, now when my lil ones were in diapers, I thought they were adorable and well worth "baby-jabbering-googooing" with. [img]smile.gif[/img]

*sigh* Unfortunately my kids are looong past those nights of googooing...they do grow up so very fast. Well I look forward to some day spoiling my grand children silly [img]smile.gif[/img] after all thats what grand parents are for.

Originally posted by Yorick: The danger in smacking a child in anger, is that the child remembers the punishment itself, not the action they were punished for. It also creates a fear of the parent. Fear and love are opposite. Positive impetus is much stronger than negative impetus It is too easy to cross a line. The slogans that pushed the attitude: "It's never, ever acceptable to hit a woman" have done much to reduce male to female spousal abuse. It seems we have a way to go in female to male spousal abuse, and parent to child abuse. If a line is in danger of being crossed, remove it altogether. How about this? It is never, ever acceptable to hit a human.[/QB]

I think that in this area, dealing with a large number of people whose parenting skills lie somewhere between nonexistent and poor, this sort of attitude would be a better place to begin than, "I'll just do what my parents did."
We most emphatically DO NOT live in a utopian world, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make it one.

EDIT: I freely picked and chose bits of Yoricks posts, but I don't think I took anything out of context...

[ 05-17-2002, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: Absynthe ]