Children, Parents and living arrangements.

[Stratos]

1. Well after their eighteenth birthday they are living there on overtime. It´s something for the parents to decide.

2. I don´t know about the responsiblity but they will have to move out someday. Personally I don´t understand why anyone would like to live with their parents into the late twenties and early thirties. I mean you are a grown-up by then.

3. Parents should give their children the neccessary tools to handle the "cold cruel world". There is always a point where the (over)protection of the children do more harm than good. Again, they will have to move out someday.

[the sauceman]

1) a child should have some kind of responibility to the family and home at 16, responsibility such as chores, maybe even a job. Dont have them sitting around on thier arses all day watching TV. If they are still living with thier parents after they graduate High School, then they should definetly have to pay rent, if they dont, how will they learn about the real world?

2) If the person in question has no sense of responsibility, then by all means, kick thier arse out for a month, let them get a taste of the real world.

3) At a point, yes. But they should not thrust the child into the real world to the extent where the child hates life, or the adult.

[IronDragon]

"merit-based" is a nice way of viewing things. When I graduated high school and began work my parents suggested I live at home so I could afford school. Mom had recently lost her job due to governmental budget cuts so financial help from the parents for school was out of the question. My job would cover tuition, books and travel but would leave nothing else. I stayed for four years and paid no rent. When the topic did come up my parents said that someday after they retire they would move in to my house and live rent free. This was the only time in my life I regretted being an only child.

1. How long (or two what age) are the parents obligated to allow their children to live at home rent and responsibility free?

Responsibility to the home and the family begin in childhood and not at age 18. This includes things from cooking and cleaning and home maintenance to participating in family decisions.

2. Do parents have a responsibility to force their kids out of the family home at some point (like mother birds pushing the chicks out of the nest).

IMHO if you raise a child well you will never have to ‘force’ them to move out as they will want to leave home because they are adult enough and independent enough to do so.

3. Is there a point at which a parent does more harm to the child by shielding them from responsibility rather than thrusting them into the cold cruel world?

Our every action, either good, bad or indifferent, has repercussions. The basis of ethical behavior is rooted in this concept. Everyone needs to grasp this concept and I believe the sooner you do grasp it the better. We all need to take responsibility for our action and our choices. My 14 month old nephew knows that if you, (for example) walk up to your brother, take the cup of juice he is drinking and throw it at him you will get a time out.

These are really great replies and I would especially like to thank Sauceman for coming in and posting, as I was quite hard on him in his thread...though being tough on him was not the reason behind my devils advocate position.

Epona. You pointed out the main reason why I think family is the most important aspect of our culture. We are all ment to be independant people, but when times are tough, families (should) band together to help the members in need....rather than pawn that responsibility off on some government agency.

From familys you then move to neighborhoods, the community works together to make things work....its all kind of integral.....but now, at least in the US we don't look to our families or our communities, we are being encouraged to look to uncle sam for a handout.....

Anyway, thank all of you for participating and for being so positive

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by MagiK: Based on Saucemans thread, and a recent post there...I found myself wondering the following. 1. How long (or two what age) are the parents obligated to allow their children to live at home rent and responsibility free? 2. Do parents have a responsibility to force their kids out of the family home at some point (like mother birds pushing the chicks out of the nest). 3. Is there a point at which a parent does more harm to the child by shielding them from responsibility rather than thrusting them into the cold cruel world?

Magik - I agree with you pretty much straight down the line. I was allowed to live at home rent-free as long as I was in school (including college), but I most definitely did not live responsibility free. I had an "on campus" job every semester in addition to working at McDonald's on the weekend for spending money. I also had responsiblities around the house and was expected to do my share.

A friend of mine got to experience issues #2 & #3 first hand. He came home from college after his sophomore year and announced he had decided to "take a year off" to experience life.
His dad said "That's great....where will you be staying?" [img]graemlins/wow.gif[/img]
"Huh....what do you mean?" asked his son.
"I mean, where will you live? I promised you could live at home as long as you were in school. You want to experience life?, then you need to get the FULL experience."

So my buddy had to find a job and a place to live. The dad owned his own business, but would not let the son work for him. So the son got out into the "real world" and found out it was pretty dang tough on his own. After a suitable time, the father allowed him to move back home and come to work for his company. The son promptly started his OWN business - which was basically a competitor to his dad's. When he refused to quit taking business away from his dad's business, he was fired - and again sent out to make it on his own. It took a little longer the second time, but the son's business eventually folded. Once again, dad allowed him to come back. As far as I know, the son is still there and DID "learn his lesson" the second time around.

His dad has a very successful business and the son is in line to take it over when dad retires. Apparantly, the son finally realized he had a pretty good set-up and decided to stay put.

Now to be honost, I don't completely agree with the dad offering his son a second chance with the business. There is always the danger that the son will try to "branch out" again...knowing that dad will act as a safety net if he fails. But so far, the son seems content to work for his dad and wait until it is his turn to run the business.

[Azred]

Originally posted by MagiK: Based on Saucemans thread, and a recent post there...I found myself wondering the following. 1. How long (or two what age) are the parents obligated to allow their children to live at home rent and responsibility free? Rent free? Until the age of 15 or 16, at which point Belle and I expect TJ to find a job, at least part-time. He will use that money to cover his own food, gas, and a portion of the utilities (we'll probably cover any car payment). After the age of 18, we expect him to move into his own apartment, whether by himself or with roommates. Responsibility free? [img]graemlins/saywhat.gif[/img] We don't expect TJ to be free of responsibility now, at the age of 8. He straightens his room, puts his own dirty clothes in the hamper, wipes down his bathroom, etc. Nothing he can't really handle (cooking his own food, etc), because you can never begin too early in life to teach a child to be responsible. 2. Do parents have a responsibility to force their kids out of the family home at some point (like mother birds pushing the chicks out of the nest). Yes. Any person over the age of 18 who cannot begin to stand alone in the adult world--job, residence, bills, etc--is in one sense a failure. Yes, you can support your grown children if need be, but too much sheltering leads to circumstances like 25-year-olds who cannot manage a checking account without becoming overdrawn every month or 30-year-olds who live at home and don't bother looking for work. We know some people like that, and not only is it sad but we honestly feel sorry for those people. How can they live being so irresponsible? 3. Is there a point at which a parent does more harm to the child by shielding them from responsibility rather than thrusting them into the cold cruel world? Yes. Parents who shield their children too much wind up with children who cannot do anything without their parents' help. What a waste.

[Aelia Jusa]

I'll start by saying that I am 22, live at home, and I don't pay rent. I am a full time student, plus I volunteer at Epilepsy Queensland to get experience for my hopefully future profession, since there really aren't opportunities to work for pay when you don't have qualifications in the field of mental health.

I agree that parents do not have an obligation to support their adult children when they finish school, if they are not studying (I say this because although certainly it's possible to have a part-time job while studying, unless you study part time and have a full time or almost full time job it is very difficult to support yourself totally while maintaining high marks). I disagree however with the notion that if adult children are not made by their parents to go out and make their own way when their parents' responsibility is legally finished, they will not be capable of doing so sometime in the future. I don't pay rent, and I've never had any experience of paying rent. That doesn't mean that I don't understand that rent would have to be paid or would not be able to pay it because I would recklessly spend all my money when I do finish my studies and move out. There are enough adults who left home early that are not capable of maintaining a budget, saving, keeping their credit rating sound and providing for themselves and their family.

People looking at me would say, like Epona's brother, that I am not a very independent person, which is true, since my mother (who is not in the paid workforce) cooks dinner for the whole family and does the washing and ironing and so on. She feels that it would be inefficient for me to do a separate load of washing and ironing and so on just because I'm an adult when it's relatively not that much trouble for her. Again, just because I don't do it now does not mean that I won't be capable or somehow have the idea that it all gets done by magical fairies or something when I do move out.

The scenario you describe MagiK is definitely one where I think the parents are being negligent in allowing their sons to remain living in their house while being so disrespectful of their property and generosity, and they should give them a kick up the bum and make them move out. But there are many adult children, my brother and I two examples, that live at home and don't behave like that, just as there are many people who are 14 or 15 who live at home and act like complete tools and need a bit of tough love.

My parents basically view their supporting me while I finish my education as - they are not spending money on me that they could be spending on themselves, that is, they are not depriving themselves of things because I needed a new pair of jeans this winter. The money they are spending on me would go to me at some time or other - either now, or when they die and I inherit. And (hopefully), by the time both my parents are gone I will be well over 40 - when do I need the money, now or when I'm fully capable of supporting myself and have been doing so for at least 20 years?

[WillowIX]

1. Until the child no longer is a minor. After that it's up to the youth and his/her parents. If Jackie would like to stay at home after she's turned 18 I won't complain too much. Of course I would expect her to contibute in one way or another. But then I already expect her to contribute by cleaning her room, set the table etc. [img]smile.gif[/img]

2. Encourage yes, force no. But I personally don't know anyone that didn't want to move out when attending college or university. No commuting and come and go as you please. If money is an issue I would be glad to help my children.

3. Well parents can still shield their children even if they do not live with them. As for doing more harm I'm not sure. In some cultures children are expected to live with their parents to take care of their needs. This would not shield the children in any way since all responsibility is on their hands. But IMO one needs to make ones own living. So working but living at home (paying rent and food of course) would not be considered shielding IMO. The scenario in your opening post is not something I endorse. If they can't find a place of their own they should at least cover their own expences.

wow so many great posts, it is very good to hear such greatattitudes toward raising children [img]smile.gif[/img]


Cerek That was a great story, and yes Id have been pretty cautious about taking the kid back in a second time.


Azred all I can say is [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] You described my ideal child rearing family building scenario.

A.J. the situation you describe is a special arrangement that owuld be included under my humanitarian exceptions clause [img]smile.gif[/img] You are a hard working student not being a lazy bum so would not warrent being tossedout on your ear.
As for not being able to work full time and get good grades....I know many honor students who did work full time...its a matter of dedication and partly of innate intelligence.

Willow, [img]smile.gif[/img] sounds like you are well on your way to having a great kid [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 05-30-2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Kaltia]

Oops, TL made a blatant error! Either that or he was brainwashed by a small group of blue aliens....

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: If I am so lucky as to have kids

I know that I might stay at home while I'm at University, unless I'm going furthur away. So, I could be leaving home at 18.