Asylum seekers - what should be done?

[Silver Cheetah]

Originally posted by Moridin: My point is the same that was made in a previous post. If you are going to come to a new country, you should at least make an attempt to adopt their culture (language, laws...) you do not have to give up your culture, but you cannot come here and expect it to be the same as in your homeland, as unfortunate as that may be! I intend no offense and I am not picking on the Hmong, I know this stuff b/c I have a few Hmong friends and even they find it ridiculous sometimes! [/B]

I'm sure this is all perfectly true, but it is rather an extreme example...

To respond to an earlier point re language, it does take time to learn a language. Some people are really good at it, and motivated to boot - others are rather fearful... Must be a big jump - when you think about it. Fleeing from your homeland, you roll up in the West, which you'd expected to be paradise (The West gets pretty good publicity in some parts of the world ) and then it turns out to be hell on earth, if of a somewhat different kind than the one you came from. You were traumatised already, now you're even more terrified - at least before you had hope - now you're in some sort of detention centre awaiting deportation to a council estate in glasgow (worst case scenario) or back to where you came from. When things finally get sorted out, and you've got to the council estate or wherever, then you have to try and work out the culture and language of the country you've come to. Small wonder if some are too damaged, dazed, confused, hurt, deeply traumatised or whatever to really make the attempt. Learning English is probably the least of their problems.

Think how many of us here in the West suffer from depression with far less cause. So if someone doesn't seem quite with it, and 'jump to it', well, is it any wonder? (This may not apply in some of the cases mentioned above - I'm talking more about the situation I know most about, i.e. in the UK.)

[Fljotsdale]

I've really hesitated about posting on this thread, 'cos I have such mixed feelings about it, and I worry in case I am being racist, which I don't wish to be.
My instinct is to say 'of course we must give them asylum! Its inhuman not to, they are people like us, in trouble and scared.'

But then I wonder. These people have behaved aggressively towards the captain, if the media is to be believed. I don't find that an attitude I would be willing to have in a neighbour.
In Britain, we have had asylum seekers tring to get into the country via the channel tunnel, despite the fact that they are safe in France. Why? I would be glad to be given succour in ANY friendly country if I needed asylum.

Also, Britain seems to have had too many immigrants in too short a time at present, and we are having difficulty absorbing them. Although I agree with many of the points made in this thread, and agree with Silver Cheetah about language problems, it makes absorbing them VERY difficult if they clot together in what is in effect a 'little India', a 'little China', or whatever, turning a part of your own country into a foreign land. It makes the (currently) native inhabitants feel vey uncomfortable and resentful and leads to expressed racism, even violence.

What is needed is to make the need for asylum a thing of the past, so that people can be safe in their own country of origin - which is where most of them would probably prefer to be anyway, just as I prefer to be in England. I have no idea how to achieve this aim, though. Just saying it would be the best solution.

I hope I do not sound racist - I am just expressing my anxieties, which are, I think, the anxieties of many.

------------------




[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-01-2001).]

[andora20]

The Irish Governmentpaid Nigeria IRP£8million to repatriate assylum seekers here in Ireland. They also agreed to train them in order to help set up their own business' in their home country, could this be a possible solution?

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Hesperex: I am sure Australia has room for a few hundred thousend Asylem seekers...I mean your population is what ... about 25 million and your Country is HUGE! I know most of it is uninhabitable but never the less you must! have plenty of room...look at us here in Britain ....some of your Farms are nearly as big as Wales and we have a population of 60 million and we take Asylem seekers by the thousends almost weekly it seems. We do not! have the room for them 60 million is the limit in my opinion, we can't take many more. France really needs to stop them getting over here...please tell me if I am missing something but whats wrong with them staying in France ....it's a nice country you have about the same population as us yet you have a lot more room than we do. Why do they even want to come to England so badly...it's the hardest place to get to bar Australia I would imagine so why!

If you believe the "experts" on population growth Australias optimum population is 15 million. Let's forget that Japans is 20 million or so, and thus way over optimum though hey?

Seriously, a lot of the land is uninhabitable for any one bar an Aboriginie. Now isn't that interesting? The subsistance culture that was here for thousands of years can survive all over the country, but the growth culture that's been there 200 years cannot?

I actually hope that some bright spark decides there is money in irrigating parts of the interior. I have mentioned here before that as a child, the town I lived in in NW Australia, of the edge of the Gibson desert, was served by a river that was dry 9 months of the year, and flooded every christmas, cutting off the town. Now, imagine if they built a dam....

There is so much potential in Australia. Darwin for example imports everything. When I was last there about six years ago, the word was that there was no manufacturing there.

????? It is the closest Australian "city" (read large town) to Asia. A hop skip and jump away from Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia.

Aussie focus is well and truly geared toward the southeast, who's only close neighbour is a couple of hamlets in Aotearoa (Nyaa nyaa Azure)

Hey! I just remembered. There is a fellow with a property as large as a country in West Oz who about ten years ago declared independance. He printed his own money, and stamps. I'm not sure whether the tax office caught up with him for refusing to pay tax, but if he's still going maybe he could pull his weight and take on these refugees.



------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 09-01-2001).]

[Aelia Jusa]

"irrigating the interior?"

This is a terrible idea. World population is well above sustainable levels as it is; steps should be made to slow population growth not ruin ecosystems with some view to fit more people in. Scientists are even now considering the option of changing the atmosphere of Mars in order to colonise it, since, and this is some people's view, the world is not savable, and this surely is unethical and not helpful to solving the problem of overpopulation. Why do these countries have asylum seekers? Many because they are severly overcrowded and can't sustain their population as well as having oppressive governments.

[sylent]

I just found out today, that I have to write a persuasive essay on exactly this topic, so I searched through the papers for the last week, and am now pretty well informed about the situation...
There are certainly some good view-points presented here, its good to hear what a non-involved person thinks about the situation, rather than the somewhat patriotic manner in which the local papers present things...

Its hard to know what to think on this issue, because there are two very different sides to it... For example, on the one hand, these current refugess in Australia, have paid big bucks (apparently something in the way of $US10,000) to jump a large que of people who are attempting to legally immigrate to Aus. Do they really deserve entrance if they are "cheating" somewhat?
Then on the other hand they are sitting out in the middle of the ocean, really quite sick, and in need of help...

It should be an interesting topic to write on actually!

------------------
"Watch your back"

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: "irrigating the interior?" This is a terrible idea. World population is well above sustainable levels as it is; steps should be made to slow population growth not ruin ecosystems with some view to fit more people in. Scientists are even now considering the option of changing the atmosphere of Mars in order to colonise it, since, and this is some people's view, the world is not savable, and this surely is unethical and not helpful to solving the problem of overpopulation. Why do these countries have asylum seekers? Many because they are severly overcrowded and can't sustain their population as well as having oppressive governments.

Why is this such a terrible solution? There was once water in Lake Eyre, why should there not be again? Have you even been out there? Were you aware for example that the Sahara desert for one, GROWS EACH YEAR. The Mauritanian govt have programs that reclaim roads taken by the desert, and grows food from salt water.

Israel have irrigated parts of their deserts. Heck, we have denuded much of the environment and created virtual deserts where concrete exists. Why not give something back?

Also I strongly disagree with any sentiment about world population being above sustainable levels. First of all because it admits defeat and that the only solution is human death, and secondly because it is mismanagement, the automobile, and human greed, not human numbers that has caused the problem. There is more than enough food to go around. Farmers in the west are paid not to grow crops. Wheat has been dumped in the ocean to maintain market value before now. We grow millions of cows that produce methane (poo) and consume more than their share of grain, so that we can eat meat each night. (One cows grain diet is supposed to feed an entire african village)

Look at all the problems and the various solutions before blaming overpopulation. That is avoidist nonsense in my opinion.

------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[This message has been edited by Yorick (edited 09-03-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: Why do these countries have asylum seekers? Many because they are severly overcrowded and can't sustain their population as well as having oppressive governments.

Aelia, I can't believe I missed this. Maybe? Check your facts. Are they not Afgahni and Sri Lankan refugees? There is civil war in these two countries. That is the root problem there, not overpopulation. Check your facts. The Sri Lankans I know (who want me to visit their country) have assured me it is a land of plenty. The seafood is some of the best in the world. Their teas are a sensation. War is the "plague".


------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Fljotsdale]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Aelia Jusa:
Why do these countries have asylum seekers? Many because they are severly overcrowded and can't sustain their population as well as having oppressive governments.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by Yorick:
Aelia, I can't believe I missed this. Maybe? Check your facts. Are they not Afgahni and Sri Lankan refugees? There is civil war in these two countries. That is the root problem there, not overpopulation. Check your facts. The Sri Lankans I know (who want me to visit their country) have assured me it is a land of plenty. The seafood is some of the best in the world. Their teas are a sensation. War is the "plague".
----------------------------------------unquote

Yorick, having re-read Aelia's post, I think you may have misjudged her! She was making a generalisation about refugees in the bit you quoted, rather than citing the origins of the refugees in the Christmas Island ship.

'Hate' to argue with you, as you know...

Sorry, Aelia! I know you can speak for yourself, but I couldn't resist! Haven't had an disagreement with Yorick in ages, lol!

------------------






[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited 09-03-2001).]

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Fljotsdale: quote:

Fjlotsdale, fleeing the persecution of an overpopulating govt. is hardly cause for refugeeship. People from India, Singapore and Hong Kong aren't considered refugees. People from war torn Lebanon, Afgahnistan, Kurdistan (in Turkey/Iraq) are, and these places are hardly overpopulated. General or specific, the inclusion of a maybe highlighted the speculative nature of the argument. Facts are available.

------------------
I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!