AD&D Rules

[Neb]

All hail 2nd ED! Damn 3rd ED, should never have been made, I'm sticking with 2nd edition until they fix things up in 4th ED, or 5th ED, or 6th ED, or......

[Bleys]

2ed and 3ed are diffrent systems and should be veiwed as such. From what I have seen from playing both, 3ed character are more powerful than 2ed characters, but to compensate 3ed monsters are more powerful.

And a quick warning for Volourn if you are go banning powers, look at them carefully and then compare them to the powers of characters of similar levels (and count them as PC who have both the experience and the magic items to go with the level), you will be surprised how powerful they really are.

A GM I know said that sorcerer had to have random spells to make them less powerful, this killed the class dead, as the sorcerer is a form of specialist mage and has to choose his spells carefully otherwise by the time he reaches mid levels the mage will be walking all over them.

[Volourn]

Once again, I agree with someone who has a different view point than me. I always try to be careful when changing things - espicially when starting a campaign. I do like a lot of whathas been done. Familiars are good for sure, and I also like the fact that non-fighters can actually take advantage of high con and str if those stats are high. Sodon't worry Bleys - I am careful as dm, just not as player.
A room full of beholders - I'll just walk in, and say hi. lol j/k

GO DWARVES GO!

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"That didn't hurt!" - Volourn Honourblade after the red dragon breathed on him for 75% of his hp.

[This message has been edited by Volourn (edited 06-13-2001).]

[WOLFGIR]

He! You ae right! The games are Different and should be viewed like it. I guess I like 3:ed because it reminds me more of games I prefered to 2:nd ed.
Sorceres are a butt in a pain, to keep form going powergaming, but well I have been a DM and also player, playing a Sorcerer with high Charisma but since all players just go whining cause I cast so many fireballs or now just got disintegration.. i still whine cause i got a low Will save, so my character is as much a danger for my fellow friends when someone with charmpoewers come walking.

That way the game is balanced, but it also makes the Dm work harder to make suitable oppositions for the characters, so far the hardest fights have been against a couple of Assasins and some mages that had alot of invisibility potions and used backsatb and mindinfluencing spells. A level 13 fighter got killed instantly by a 4:th level spell Phantasmal killer. So the game makes for a tougher fight, but I takes alot of getting used too to!

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Yawning lazywolf dreaming about nice little fairies...zzzzz

[sunder]

I grew up on the origional D&D rules. In the early days, you didn't have powergamers, you had roleplayers. That was what D&D was invented for. Roleplaying. Not sitting there whacking rows of creatures to advance more, but to roleplay a quest, explore new lands, make up towns and other things.
A level 9-10 character was considered a pinnicle of playing. That was when your character became a force in the world. That was when your fighter became a true Lord, a mage became a true mage, thats when your hp's stopped raising per level, you just gained a few more each level after that.
If you got up to level 9 or so, you were a very experienced gamer. Those parties took on the hard foes, the giants, the dragons, etc. Each point of strength or dexterity etc counted. That +1 extra bonus to hit was a big difference in how you fought.

Then came Inflation. It happens as part of the world. People started to experiment and make up new classes and characters, because of the growing strength of the characters, new and stronger monsters had to be invented. Old dragons started becomming ancient dragons, then Great Wyrms.
Then they started with Weapon Proficiencies. Before, you were either proficient in a weapon or not. Now you can get to Grandmaster weapon. In D&D, it was alot worse than in baldur's gate 2. A grandmaster swordsman in D&D wasn't just +2/+3 with their weapon plus an extra attack, they were that strong times 3. Their attacks got stronger with each mastery. Proficient with a 2-handed sword did 1-10 damage, a Grandmaster might do 3-24.
SO they have to bump the monsters up some more. You had weapon and non-weapon proficiencies, you could be ambidextrous and use 2 weapons, you could learn bodybuilding to increase your HP per level, many others.
Monks became martial artists, with many different styles. Not just a monk, but maybe a karate monk, a judo monk, a wrestling monk. A strong monk character could do 6 attacks per round, doing 1-10 damage a hit.

Now not everything is bad. I personally loved alot of the 2nd edition rules, I like the martial arts lists, I like the new Psionists, alot of neat things. But there was too much bad things.
I tried one time to play with game as DM with a bunch of new wavers (what we called the new edition players) I gave up after the first day, this guy wanted to be the ambidextrous elven fighter with 2 swords skilled in dodging and such and such, mm that gives him +2 ac bonus, and hes from the north hills, so he gets +1 str and -1 int because hes a wood elf, and hes using a elven bow which is +1 to hit, and lets see, etc.etc.. you get the idea.
TOOOOOOOOOO MANNNYY STTTUUPPIIDDD RULLLEESSS! he he.

[WOLFGIR]

Originally posted by sunder: I grew up on the origional D&D rules. In the early days, you didn't have powergamers, you had roleplayers. That was what D&D was invented for. Roleplaying. Not sitting there whacking rows of creatures to advance more, but to roleplay a quest, explore new lands, make up towns and other things. A level 9-10 character was considered a pinnicle of playing. That was when your character became a force in the world. That was when your fighter became a true Lord, a mage became a true mage, thats when your hp's stopped raising per level, you just gained a few more each level after that. If you got up to level 9 or so, you were a very experienced gamer. Those parties took on the hard foes, the giants, the dragons, etc. Each point of strength or dexterity etc counted. That +1 extra bonus to hit was a big difference in how you fought. Then came Inflation. It happens as part of the world. People started to experiment and make up new classes and characters, because of the growing strength of the characters, new and stronger monsters had to be invented. Old dragons started becomming ancient dragons, then Great Wyrms. Then they started with Weapon Proficiencies. Before, you were either proficient in a weapon or not. Now you can get to Grandmaster weapon. In D&D, it was alot worse than in baldur's gate 2. A grandmaster swordsman in D&D wasn't just +2/+3 with their weapon plus an extra attack, they were that strong times 3. Their attacks got stronger with each mastery. Proficient with a 2-handed sword did 1-10 damage, a Grandmaster might do 3-24. SO they have to bump the monsters up some more. You had weapon and non-weapon proficiencies, you could be ambidextrous and use 2 weapons, you could learn bodybuilding to increase your HP per level, many others. Monks became martial artists, with many different styles. Not just a monk, but maybe a karate monk, a judo monk, a wrestling monk. A strong monk character could do 6 attacks per round, doing 1-10 damage a hit. Now not everything is bad. I personally loved alot of the 2nd edition rules, I like the martial arts lists, I like the new Psionists, alot of neat things. But there was too much bad things. I tried one time to play with game as DM with a bunch of new wavers (what we called the new edition players) I gave up after the first day, this guy wanted to be the ambidextrous elven fighter with 2 swords skilled in dodging and such and such, mm that gives him +2 ac bonus, and hes from the north hills, so he gets +1 str and -1 int because hes a wood elf, and hes using a elven bow which is +1 to hit, and lets see, etc.etc.. you get the idea. TOOOOOOOOOO MANNNYY STTTUUPPIIDDD RULLLEESSS! he he.

LOL! Reminds me of old memories! I have played for 18 years now, and IN the beginning we started out with Runequest, and you are a total nobody in the game. Just some farmer son stumbling into a couple of orcs nd you are deadmeat!

He, well I think that rules are rules, and that the more rules you have don´t necasarily gives you better gaming, but to few rules can bring up too many logjams in play. Games with alot of rules has the advantage that the DM can just say, this is the rule, I mark it down for discussion later, lets move on. And the game can continue and the players and DM can discuss that rule later.

To roleplay it mostly depends on the DM and the player to whick level of Role/power gaming it will be.

I tried Amber because I wanted to play out the roleplaying part. With good players this was great, but with inexperienced players it could be horrible debated on this and that...

We run an old company of players here that likes the same games. To have your character feel alittle powerful sometimes, his right after many battles and bloodlosses over years. Then, nmost peolpe like long and tough struggles that aren´t impossible but demands the most out of their characters. Then the spirit is high. No rules can destroy the spirit of a group, cause the group will harmonize fine, or change game or rules.

Well more 2 cents from me and I will pay your parking soon!

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Yawning lazywolf dreaming about nice little fairies...zzzzz

[Neb]

From what little encounters I have had with 3rd ed, it appears to me as though the players have an easy time getting mighty?

In my opinion the best that there is is 2nd ed with Psionics and the majority of the extra rulebooks(Can't use all of them or it's impossible to keep track of them all, the 2nd ed DM's computer utility helps a lot though.), then you're ready to play, now the only problem is finding someone to play with, that's my problem, I have noone to play with, the only ones I can play with don't have time, prefer 3rd ed, are pure powergamers and none of them can even be an average DM which forces me to be the DM.