Osama Bin Laden - In His Own Words

[Ronn_Bman]

On his methods:
"You cannot defeat the heretic with this book alone," bin Laden has said, referring to the Koran. "You have to show them the fist." (Quoted in The Washington Post, Sept. 18, 2001.)

On Americans:
"The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim." (From "Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders," 23 February 1998)

To the Palestinians:
"We give you the good news that the forces of Islam are coming and the forces of Yemen will continue in the name of God." (From a training video that circulated in the Middle East after the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000.)

On weapons of mass destruction:
"If I seek to acquire such weapons, this is a religious duty," he said. "How we use them is up to us." (Quoted by a Pakistani news agency in 1998.)

[Barry the Sprout]

Well now I am converted! Give me a bomb and I will drop it on Afghanistan! (sorry everyone, I am still confused as to whether sarcasm is approved or not)

What worries me Ronn is that he is by no means the only person who thinks like this. What do you propose, killing them all? I don't think that will ever happen because it is a little difficult to tell who they are at first glance.

The first comment isn't meant to belittle you Ronn, I just don't find that stuff all that relevant. We all know he is dangerous, we just differ in how we deal with him.

[Ladyzekke]

quote:

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Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
Well now I am converted! Give me a bomb and I will drop it on Afghanistan! (sorry everyone, I am still confused as to whether sarcasm is approved or not)

What worries me Ronn is that he is by no means the only person who thinks like this. What do you propose, killing them all? I don't think that will ever happen because it is a little difficult to tell who they are at first glance.

The first comment isn't meant to belittle you Ronn, I just don't find that stuff all that relevant. We all know he is dangerous, we just differ in how we deal with him.

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I don't think Ronn "proposed" anything, he just posted some quotes from Bin Laden for comments.

Here's my comment - Bin Laden is warped in his thinking, power hungry, thinks he is some high diety, he kills, he manipulates others, he cares naught for human life, including those of "his own," he cares naught for Nature, he worships Blood and Death and Oppression.

[Ronn_Bman]

Barry, to answer your question...YES!

Osama and those like him are dangerous, and must be removed. The US has the right under the UN, as any other nation, to defend itself from attack. He has made clear his desires, and he has proven his abilities and all the negotiating in the world will not remove him or change him. Governments who will allow those like Osama to act with impunity within their borders must have their ability to do that removed. Negotiation is useless against those who have no desire to negotiate.

The UN security council ordered the Taliban to surrender Osama to any country that would prosecute him for his international crimes and to "move quickly" to dismantle all terrorists training camps in Afghanistan. They did this over one year ago. The food kept coming in from international relief efforts, but nothing was done.

What is the US to do, when Osama has made it clear he and his followers should attack and kill American civilians at every opportunity through any means at their disposal? Osama has demanded his followers kill me, my wife, and my children to further his cause, so I'm not really interested in appeasing him or those like him. I guess I take it a bit personally. I want them eliminated, and that includes the bombing in Afghanistan.

[KHaN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ronn_Bman:
What is the US to do, when Osama has made it clear he and his followers should attack and kill American civilians at every opportunity through any means at their disposal? Osama has demanded his followers kill me, my wife, and my children to further his cause, so I'm not really interested in appeasing him or those like him. I want them eliminated, and that includes the bombing in Afghanistan.

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True words. I just feel bad when I hear about children dieing or losing an arm/leg in a bomb that went off course or were part of some colateral damage. I'm human, I have emotions for innocents on both sides. It's a crappy way to fight a war but I guess we have no other choice.

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by KHaN:


True words. I just feel bad when I hear about children dieing or losing an arm/leg in a bomb that went off course or were part of some colateral damage. I'm human, I have emotions for innocents on both sides. It's a crappy way to fight a war but I guess we have no other choice.

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I also think those things are terrible, and truly have sympathy for those innocents. Hopefully, their nation can come together after this a become a safe place to live.

[Barry the Sprout]

What I was trying to get at Ronn was that Bin Laden is only the tip of the iceberg. Fine we might be able to kill him or make him kill himself, but what about all the other people out there with the same objectives. This will just make them madder! I know i have said this before but I think if your sole objective is saving American citizens lives then this is a very bad move.

There is always going to be another Bin Laden until we remove, or at least temper, the reasons he has for doing what he does.

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
What I was trying to get at Ronn was that Bin Laden is only the tip of the iceberg. Fine we might be able to kill him or make him kill himself, but what about all the other people out there with the same objectives. This will just make them madder! I know i have said this before but I think if your sole objective is saving American citizens lives then this is a very bad move.

There is always going to be another Bin Laden until we remove, or at least temper, the reasons he has for doing what he does.

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I have said we definately need to improve our relations in the region, and across the world for that matter, but taking action does seem a reasonable recourse in the current situation. The "right" answer is rarely completely one thing or the other, but instead, the compilation of many things. We need to work militarily against a physical threat, and ideologically about misperceptions, and with caring in the form of humanitarian and other aid against the rest. One without the others will be useless.

[Barry the Sprout]

But I don't think the military action will help your diplomatic efforts. In fact I think it will make them nigh on impossible at a grass roots level. At present the coalition has support from leaders but who knows what the Muslim-on-the-streets is thinking? That is who this war will alienate.

So I don't think the solution has to include war for it to work at all. I personally think war is the one ingredient that is most likely to cause its failure.

[Ronn_Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:
But I don't think the military action will help your diplomatic efforts. In fact I think it will make them nigh on impossible at a grass roots level. At present the coalition has support from leaders but who knows what the Muslim-on-the-streets is thinking? That is who this war will alienate.

So I don't think the solution has to include war for it to work at all. I personally think war is the one ingredient that is most likely to cause its failure.

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We have to defend ourselves. I know you don't like the war, but short of the dissolution of Isreal and the removal of all non-Arabs from the middle east Osama will not be satisfied. Is that reasonable?

The police capture and are sometimes forced to kill those who threaten the security of the community, why is this any different? Police do not purposely injure innocents, but even in stand-off situations where the police negotiate to save hostages. That negotiation does not lead to additional people being threatened because the criminals are cornered while the negotiation is taking place. Osama is not going to stop terrorism while we negotiate nor can we afford to live in danger while we wait a generation for grass roots support to build. Sometimes things have to be done here and now.