Should Van Tuong be hanged?

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by burnzey boi: So how come this person gets hanged early for smuggling drugs, yet however the mastermin that killed people in dangerous bomb blasts has yet to be decided? And how they let off Mechelle because she was muslim?

This is called a "meta" thought, and those are strictly off limits because they ignore the "4-corners" realms of the question posed.

Um.... I mean, good point.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Hivetyrant: No, I don't think the punishment fits the crime, but the fact remains that death is the penalty for smuggling drugs, and he was well aware of that

You folks are missing a key element. In any nation's laws that I'm aware of Ignorance of the Crime is NO DEFENSE. So, it matters not whether the guy KNEW it was against the law. And this doesn't even address the factual validity of assuming he did. Regardless, if you land in a country and find out too late that your polka-dotted shirt is illegal, to bad, so sad, doesn't matter whether you KNEW or not.

[ 11-30-2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Orbost]

Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: I do not know from what evidence do you derive your opinion that we are bosom buddies with Myammar, but we are not. Yes, we are neighbours in the South-East Asia(SEA) region, but I would hardly describe our relations as "close ties". I would also like to see references on how you came about your statement on the heroin trade in Singapore. Additionally, I would wholly appreciate it if you explain how Singapore supports Myammar's "dire human rights, repression of the media and democracy movements, and monster drugs trade". I hope your sources are from actual documents and not media hysteria. ~~~~ ~~~~

Firstly, yes I should have quoted some sources before posting to support my statements. I apologise for not doing so.

For information on the international drugs trade and supply routes, you'll find plenty of interesting stuff on the UN Office of Drugs and Crime website. The World Drug Rport is particularly interesting. Approx 25% of the world's opium is produced in Myanmar, and that is the major source of the heroin smuggled through SE Asia, including Singapore.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/world_drug_report.html

For whether Myanmar really is a nasty place you could do worse than check out Amnesty International's website ehere they have several dozen reports.

For Singpore's links with Myanmar, I stand guilty of believing what I read in the papers! I'll try to find some hard data to support these articles:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17336572-2,00.html

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...html?from=top5

If we believe some of the data in these articles, the S'pore government invests over SGD1bn in Myanamar (this data confirmed by official S'pore government statistics - I'll find the reference for you later).

So I concede that I did not adequately research my statements. I will now endeavour to do so.

(And if anyone can tell me how to insert a hyperlink into my post for the above references, that would be great!)

[Morgeruat]

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substitute [] for {} and to see a live demonstration look at this

[ 11-30-2005, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Morgeruat ]

[Hivetyrant]

Hehehe, I just got the following SMS on my mobile...

Dear mum, wont be home 4 christmas, going to hang around singapore. Love your son, Van Ngugen

[burnzey boi]

seriously though, people who do do drugs can be cured. people who murder are insane in the head and they are the people who should be punished with death. Only 14 hours to live, how would you be? If that was me i'd try break out and run ( of course in slow motion to give it a dramatic effect )

[Dundee Slaytern]

Originally posted by Orbost: quote: Originally posted by Dundee Slaytern: I do not know from what evidence do you derive your opinion that we are bosom buddies with Myammar, but we are not. Yes, we are neighbours in the South-East Asia(SEA) region, but I would hardly describe our relations as "close ties". I would also like to see references on how you came about your statement on the heroin trade in Singapore. Additionally, I would wholly appreciate it if you explain how Singapore supports Myammar's "dire human rights, repression of the media and democracy movements, and monster drugs trade". I hope your sources are from actual documents and not media hysteria. ~~~~ ~~~~

Firstly, yes I should have quoted some sources before posting to support my statements. I apologise for not doing so.

For information on the international drugs trade and supply routes, you'll find plenty of interesting stuff on the UN Office of Drugs and Crime website. The World Drug Rport is particularly interesting. Approx 25% of the world's opium is produced in Myanmar, and that is the major source of the heroin smuggled through SE Asia, including Singapore.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/world_drug_report.html

For whether Myanmar really is a nasty place you could do worse than check out Amnesty International's website ehere they have several dozen reports.

For Singpore's links with Myanmar, I stand guilty of believing what I read in the papers! I'll try to find some hard data to support these articles:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17336572-2,00.html

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...html?from=top5

If we believe some of the data in these articles, the S'pore government invests over SGD1bn in Myanamar (this data confirmed by official S'pore government statistics - I'll find the reference for you later).

So I concede that I did not adequately research my statements. I will now endeavour to do so.

(And if anyone can tell me how to insert a hyperlink into my post for the above references, that would be great!) [/QUOTE]From the same document that you linked to.

From Chapter 1.2.1. , Page 1 While global cultivation of opium poppy is increasing… In 2004, global illicit opium poppy cultivation increased by 16%, due entirely to increased cultivation in Afghanistan. In Southeast Asia, in contrast, opium poppy cultivation has decreased continuously since 1998. In 2004, only 50,900 ha of opium were cultivated in Lao PDR and Myanmar, as compared to 158,000 ha in Lao PDR, Myanmar, Thailand and Viet Nam in 1998. Despite this year’s increase, global opium poppy cultivation is still far less than it was in the nineties, and since 1998 - the year of the UNGASS - global cultivation has declined by 18%. In 2004, 67% of the global opium poppy cultivation took place in Afghanistan. The area under cultivation increased from about 80,000 ha in 2003 to an unprecedented 131,000 ha in 2004. Of greatest concern is the fact that opium poppy cultivation has been introduced into previously unaffected areas and is now found in all 34 provinces of the country. Over the last six years, the Governments of Lao PDR and Myanmar have achieved a reduction of illicit cultivation in their countries. In Myanmar, rapid reduction is being promoted in line with a national action plan to eradicate the crop by the year 2014. The total area under opium poppy cultivation in Myanmar was reduced 23% to 44,200 ha in 2004. The Government of the Lao PDR has a similar goal of eliminating opium poppy cultivation by the year 2005. The total area under opium poppy cultivation in 2004 was down 43% to 6,600 ha in 2004. Both countries promote alternative livelihood programmes to increase the likelihood that these reductions will be sustainable and the overall goals will be met on target. But many farmers still lack access to these programmes, and assistance from the international community is limited.

From Chapter 1.2.1. , Page 2 Despite increased farm gate prices, it is expected that the decline of cultivation in Southeast Asia will continue as the Government of Lao PDR and the Government of Myanmar remain determined to achieve the goals set in their respective national drug control programmes. The sustainability of these reductions in cultivation will depend on the availability of alternative livelihoods opportunities for local communities.

From Chapter 1.2.2. , Page 12 Seizures remained stable - at lower levels - in South-East Asia… With opium production in Myanmar and Laos PDR continuing to decline, opiates seizures in South-East Asia (12.4 mt or 11% of global seizures) remained basically stable in 2003 (+4%). In contrast to South-West Asia, opiate seizures in South-East Asia, where heroin is refined close to source, are almost exclusively in the form of heroin. China reported the world’s third largest total seizure of opiates (9.6 mt in 2003, or 9% of global seizures) after Pakistan and Iran, ahead of Tajikistan, Turkey and the Russian Federation, and accounted for 77% of all opiates seizures in East and South-East Asia. As almost all of this was heroin (9.5 mt), authorities in China made, for the third year in a row, the world’s largest total heroin seizures (18% of the global total), ahead of Pakistan, Tajikistan and Turkey.

Also, with regards to the following statement,

"and that is the major source of the heroin smuggled through SE Asia, including Singapore."

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/WDR_2005/vo...p6_opiates.pdf

It is not possible for us to know what is the exact amount of heroin that passes through each individual countries, but the amount of heroin gets seized in Singapore is relatively small compared to the rest in the region, and the world. The concept of the death penalty is to act as a mental deterrent.

You have to be practically suicidal to smuggle drugs through Singapore.

~~~~ ~~~~

I will not defend Myanmar on the issue of human rights, because I have very little information on that matter, so I leave it to more informed members to talk about it.

As for the trade issue, ASEAN members have always favoured the soft approach, as was demostrated in the recent appointment of the next ASEAN chaircountry. Myanmar was coaxed privately to pass their turn to the next country.

What they choose to do in their own country is up to them, but the members may try to persuade them to change, without playing hardball.

[shamrock_uk]

Well, breaking news is that he's just popped his clogs. Looks like the executioner getting sacked wasn't enough to save him.

[Hivetyrant]

yep, and here is a link to the story

[Hayashi]

Originally posted by burnzey boi: So how come this person gets hanged early for smuggling drugs, yet however the mastermin that killed people in dangerous bomb blasts has yet to be decided? And how they let off Mechelle because she was muslim?

Because the courts are from different countries, with different judiciaries.
The cases you cite are/were before the Indonesian courts. Apples & oranges.
Rest assured if Michelle had been caught in Singapore, she would have faced the same Misuse of Drugs Act. But in her case, from the little that I know (I didn't follow the case closely) she would've been charged with possession since IIRC she was found with 2 Ecstasy tablets in her handbag.