05-10-2003, 01:34 PM | #81 | |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 44
Posts: 6,541
|
Quote:
It's fine to try and prove passive smoking doesn't kill you, but not if you try to "expose the second hand smoke crowd" who have very valid concerns whether it kills you or no. OT, I don't think it should be made impossible for smokers to smoke anywhere in public, and I think it would be good to have both places for smokers and places for non-smokers. But I do think that where interests clash, the non-smokers should always be put first. Non-smokers don't bother smokers, but vice versa it CAN be a problem. We have rules that clubs should be accessible to wheelchairs: they should be accessible to asthmatics and other lung patients too. A smoker can go to a club and nip outside if he/she absolutely HAS to smoke, but someone with asthma cannot visit a place where people smoke and nip outside if s/he HAS to get a breath of fresh air. At least with cafes, you can choose to avoid places with certain smoking policies, but with concerts it's a different matter. So I would not mind if concert halls were forced to go smoke-free. [ 05-10-2003, 01:35 PM: Message edited by: Melusine ]
__________________
[img]\"hosted/melusine.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Your voice is ambrosia |
|
05-10-2003, 01:50 PM | #82 |
Zhentarim Guard
Join Date: February 24, 2003
Location: Indiana
Age: 61
Posts: 358
|
Melusine, I know what you are talking about. I have latent asthma, and I can generally tell if any of the people in the three cars in front of me on the freeway are smoking, and can usually tell you which car it is.
And while I agree that a smoker is putting smoke into "your" air, it is just as much "his" air since public property is owned in common. Why should you get to decide how to use property that is no less his than yours? The best answer I can think of is privatizing the public lands -- sell off the freeways, and all the upkeep expense and accompanying graft and corruption, and let the new owners decide whether to allow smoking. Or whether to allow truck traffic, or red sportscars, or drunks, or travelling salesmen, or senior citizens, or whatever else. Obviously, businesses have a vested interest in keeping their customers happy, since they don't have the option of pointing a gun at their customers and telling them to be happy or else... |
05-10-2003, 02:06 PM | #83 |
Dracolisk
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Age: 44
Posts: 6,541
|
I see what you mean, it *is* everybody's air, but I don't buy the argument when harm to others comes into play. It may very well be everybody's air, but that doesn't mean I can spray tear gas or even a toxic gas into the air right in the middle of a busy street right? Fumes from smoke are toxic gases too.
I see what you mean, legally I cannot make any more claims to the air around me than a smoker can, but IMO, when a person's health is involved, it should make a difference. I can push someone aside if I want to stand in his spot (rude but legal), but not if in doing so I push that person off the edge of a cliff.
__________________
[img]\"hosted/melusine.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Your voice is ambrosia |
05-10-2003, 03:22 PM | #84 |
Zhentarim Guard
Join Date: February 24, 2003
Location: Indiana
Age: 61
Posts: 358
|
Oh, I agree that if he harms you, he owes you restitution. Document your damages and take him to court. Over the long haul, this will discourage people from trying to externalize the costs of their actions.
But the problem is inherent in the notion of commons. Far brighter men than I have argued that it is impossible to correctly allocate any scarce resource without the automatic signals generated by prices within the free market. They showed that it is impossible for commons to be "used" properly, it can only be used as those in political power want to have it used, and those in power will be sure to denigrate any of dissenting opinion, even if they have to make up facts and data to support their vitriol. If I put my mind to it, I'm pretty sure I can think of an example where the political elite and their accompanying bureaucracy did this.... oh, yes. They did it to smokers... |
05-10-2003, 04:15 PM | #85 | |
Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice
Join Date: August 31, 2001
Location: Land of the Britons
Age: 37
Posts: 3,224
|
Quote:
__________________
Resident cantankerous sorcerer of the Clan HADB<br />and Sorcerous Nuttella salesman of the O.R.T<br /> <br /><br />Say NO to the Trouser Tyranny! Can I drill you about this? |
|
05-10-2003, 05:02 PM | #86 |
Gold Dragon
Join Date: March 29, 2002
Location: Canada
Age: 51
Posts: 2,534
|
Personally, as a non smoker, I think a public smoking ban is unnecessary in the majority of cases, with perhaps the exception of certain hospitality industries.
You walk into a bar, sit down, order a drink and light up a cigarette. Okay, you're an adult, you know what smoking does to you and it's your choice. Unfortunately your waitress doesn't have that choice and is forced to inhale second hand smoke. That isn't fair. Here in BC, WCB attempted to institute a smoking ban in late 2001, early 2002, but it didn't last long. It's interesting to note that the majority supported such legislation. http://www.cleanaircoalitionbc.com/N...000AngReid.pdf I choose not to smoke, and I also choose not to frequent establishments that allow smoking. That's my choice to do so, but I don't need legislation to tell me that. I will simply not support those business that allow smoking with my money.
__________________
It\'s all fun and games until somebody loses an eye...then it becomes a sport.<br /> [img]\"http://members.shaw.ca/mtholdings/bsmeter.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> |
05-10-2003, 05:24 PM | #87 |
40th Level Warrior
|
What good would a smoking ban REALLY do for our society ?
__________________
|
05-10-2003, 06:04 PM | #88 | |
Dracolisk
Join Date: November 1, 2002
Location: Australia ..... G\'day!
Posts: 6,123
|
Quote:
(this argument is sure to win him over) [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] |
|
05-10-2003, 10:20 PM | #89 | |
Very Mad Bird
Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Breukelen (over the river from New Amsterdam)
Age: 52
Posts: 9,246
|
Quote:
|
|
05-10-2003, 10:33 PM | #90 |
Ninja Storm Shadow
Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
|
When I was young this was a free country!!!!!!!!!
Well they can ban what ever they want to ban, I was born under the US Constitution and I'll die under the US Constitution as it stood in 1961 unless there are new legal admements. I sure as pooping would hate to be the first two anti-smoking Nazi's coming through my front door. They'll be introduced to Mr. Remington and his buddies Federal 00 buck shot.
__________________
Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working. Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864 66:KIA 5008 67:KIA 9378 68:KIA 14594 69:KIA 9414 70:KIA 4221 71:KIA 1380 72:KIA 300 Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585 2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting Davros 1 Much abliged Massachusetts |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Thank You for Smoking | Ilander | Entertainment (Movies, TV Shows and Books/Comics) | 0 | 04-14-2006 05:56 PM |
smoking | burnzey boi | General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) | 190 | 12-06-2004 12:24 AM |
Smoking ban | Lanesra | General Discussion | 130 | 04-12-2004 05:43 PM |
Smoking and under 18 yrs old? | uss | General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) | 32 | 07-07-2002 01:29 PM |
smoking bad for you ???? | johnny | General Conversation Archives (11/2000 - 01/2005) | 41 | 06-23-2002 10:06 AM |