Non-native English speakers?!?

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Vaskez: No, I was born in Budapest, but now live in England. I don't think I could speak or write english this well if I still lived in Hungary, hehe Hmm, the Magyars and the Finss do not come from the same race as far as I know. The 2 languages are very very different even though they are from the same language group. They are nowhere near as similar as say english and german. AFAIK there are no words that even sound the same like green and grun (with the umlaut!) in english and german. The race that IS related to Magyars is the Huns. There is a legend which says that the nations originated from 2 brothers, Hunor and Magyar. Although this is just a story there is some truth in that they are related. The Huns eventually left Asia about 500 years b4 the Magyars, destroying much of the western roman empire as u know and then somehow disappearing, merging with existing nations etc. Luckily the Magyars managed to survive . Someone above stated that all European languages stem from Indo-European, IIRC HUngarin and Finnish do not. I know Hungarian(Magyar) originated from somewhere in Asia which is where the Magyars came from. A little note, although the Ottomans (damn turks!!!! ) and the Austrians did rule Hungary at some stage, slavs never did. Rather Magyars ruled all of Yugoslavia and some stage. The other damn nation that dared to attack Hungary is the Mongols which was even b4 the Ottomans. I think you'll all have had enough of me by the end of this thread!

Vaskez,

Your posts are fascinating! Don't stop making them!


Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight
Heart Mind Soul Forever

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Vaskez, Your posts are fascinating! Don't stop making them! Cloudy

Thanks Cloudy

But don't tempt me!
In case anyone didn't know the Mongols at that time were also known as the Tatars. Everyone was afraid of the Tatars when they arrived in Europe in the mid 1200's. They smashed up half the country b4 they were stopped. So well if the Magyars hadn't been there, then bye bye Austria, and then Germany etc. If u noticed the Turks also stopped at Hungary. They tried to take Vienna by siege at some point (this is 16-1700's) we're talkin now but failed. So they could again spread no further than Hungary because the Magyars were keeping them occupied too much. All in all, western Europe has Hungary to thank for much of its safety in the last millenium. But I digress....

Where were we? Languages? Cloudy, are u part/full Russian?

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Vaskez: Thanks Cloudy But don't tempt me! In case anyone didn't know the Mongols at that time were also known as the Tatars. Everyone was afraid of the Tatars when they arrived in Europe in the mid 1200's. They smashed up half the country b4 they were stopped. So well if the Magyars hadn't been there, then bye bye Austria, and then Germany etc. If u noticed the Turks also stopped at Hungary. They tried to take Vienna by siege at some point (this is 16-1700's) we're talkin now but failed. So they could again spread no further than Hungary because the Magyars were keeping them occupied too much. All in all, western Europe has Hungary to thank for much of its safety in the last millenium. But I digress.... Where were we? Languages? Cloudy, are u part/full Russian?

Neither, dear Vaskez! AngloSaxon ancestors... but I have two degrees in Russian (lang and lit) and work in a languages department in a university, where Russian was originally a requirement for the job and I did my MA work. I do administrative assistant work for a large department. Very diverse group of faculty and students. One of our Spanish professors is from Hungary orgiginally!
She has a place in Budapest and visits every summer. Small world, isn't it?

Cloudy


And I did learn about the Tatars in my studies!

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight
Heart Mind Soul Forever

[Vaskez]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Neither, dear Vaskez! AngloSaxon ancestors... but I have two degrees in Russian (lang and lit) and work in a languages department in a university, where Russian was originally a requirement for the job and I did my MA work. I do administrative assistant work for a large department. Very diverse group of faculty and students. One of our Spanish professors is from Hungary orgiginally! She has a place in Budapest and visits every summer. Small world, isn't it? Cloudy And I did learn about the Tatars in my studies!

Is this university in the USA? Cos then I wouldn't be surprised about your spanish professor, there are hundreds of thousands of magyars in USA. They all fled there during the 1956 uprising. But yeah it is a small world, hehe, especially with the net. If u ever can u should visit Budapest- it is a very nice city (amazing views), my favourite city so far, but I haven't been out of Europe yet (still plenty of time, I'm still at uni ) and of course I am biassed
There is this one place where u can go up the hill with a ski lift, (no skiing there though, the lift is for a laugh), and then u walk further up and there is a look-out tower. This is in the hills around Buda. When u go to the top of the tower and look out u will be amazed at the view. Ok it might not be the view from the empire state-building but it is different. On one side stretches the countryside and all the fields etc. and on the other, the city. It is pretty cool how u can view the city, walk around the balcony and view the countryside from a few hundred metres up.

Damn, see I told u u'd have enough of me, I talk too much

[Yorick]

Vaskez, I mentioned that all European languages stemmed from IndoEuropean with the understanding that Finno-Ugric languages are ASIAN in origin, and from memory, are related somewhat distantly to Turkic languages. The Finns and Magyars ARE considered related by linguists as both originated in central Asia. The Finns at one point in history had a huge territory stretching from modern Finland through to Central Asia, where the Magyars originated. In the Budapest museum there's a huge map dedicated to the "arrival" and settlement in "Greater Hungary".

I'm aware that the Slavs never conquered the Magyars, however, the Slavs never conquered the Rus (Swedish Vangarians) either. The Slavs have had a habit of either absorbing or influenceing their conquerors. I was merely pointing out that Swedish influence in the Finnish case, aside from affecting Finnish physical appearance, may well have affected the language. Austro-Ottoman-Slavic influence may well have altered the Magyar strain.

Though the Tatars were indeed of Mongol stock (as indeed were the Huns) history generally distinguishes the two. Tamerlane's Samarkand was vastly different to Khublai's Kingdom.

No need to give me a history lesson Vaskez , I'm familiar with what you are referring to.

I once taught a Magyar. Brock Tamasi was his name and a very good singer/songwriter he is at that.

I still have some Forintz at home too. No-one will change them though. Maybe I should have kept that damn receipt from the Beureau-de-change.....

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Yorick]

Oh yeah, that was eight years ago BTW.

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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Vaskez: Is this university in the USA? Cos then I wouldn't be surprised about your spanish professor, there are hundreds of thousands of magyars in USA. They all fled there during the 1956 uprising. But yeah it is a small world, hehe, especially with the net. If u ever can u should visit Budapest- it is a very nice city (amazing views), my favourite city so far, but I haven't been out of Europe yet (still plenty of time, I'm still at uni ) and of course I am biassed There is this one place where u can go up the hill with a ski lift, (no skiing there though, the lift is for a laugh), and then u walk further up and there is a look-out tower. This is in the hills around Buda. When u go to the top of the tower and look out u will be amazed at the view. Ok it might not be the view from the empire state-building but it is different. On one side stretches the countryside and all the fields etc. and on the other, the city. It is pretty cool how u can view the city, walk around the balcony and view the countryside from a few hundred metres up. Damn, see I told u u'd have enough of me, I talk too much

I loved it. You know, the view from the Empire State Bldg is probably nice, but I love countrysides and villages more than cities for views...and for pure atmosphere. One reason why I traveled outside the Moscow city limits illegaly when I was there...that and I was young. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it! The area where Boris Pasternak's dacha sits is beautiful! I've been there, by invitation of a relative of his. Truly moving experience, I have to say.

Believe me, Hungary is on my list of places I'd love to see. Along with England, Scotland, Wales , Australia (NSW mainly, but I'm game for more!) and New Zealand, Beijing, Japan,Sweden, Spain (the areas influenced by the Moors mainly), Morroco, Tunisia and Egypt. Well, that's the mini-list...

Cloudy

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Raindancer of the Laughing Hyenas Clan
Storm-Queen
StormCloud of the Black Knight
Heart Mind Soul Forever

[onthepequod]

Originally posted by Cloudbringer: Believe me, Hungary is on my list of places I'd love to see. Along with England, Scotland, Wales , Australia (NSW mainly, but I'm game for more!) and New Zealand, Beijing, Japan,Sweden, Spain (the areas influenced by the Moors mainly), Morroco, Tunisia and Egypt. Well, that's the mini-list... Cloudy

When you go to Wales make sure you visit Hay-On-Wye. It's a book lovers meca! The economics of the entire village are predicated on its renown as "the book (used) capital of the world."

I picked up an 1849 copy of Longfellow with an embossed cloth cover in excellent condition (my opinion and not the actual collectors grade). On second thought, I did end up spending alot of money there. So if you have a weakness for books (esp. antiquarian) Hay-On-Wye may not be such a good idea.


[This message has been edited by onthepequod (edited 05-13-2001).]

[WOLFGIR]

Well, we Swedes are are the hurt of many but we also did something right in our time of whoopass..

It´s commonly known that webehaves very bad to Finland, made them learn and talk Swedish, but then again we had a a volunteer force that fought with them in the Winterwar and we have not that many ill jokes about them as we have about Norwy. Finland (congrats to the Hockey gold!) Are in many ways close to Sweden although we have had our differncies. Finland helped Sweden with alot of workers moving here after WW2, and there ae alot of Finnish people here still. (Thats why I always cheers for Finland in Hockeygames when Sweden doesn´t oplay )

All thoose Catholics out there might hate us but the Protestants may cheer us. We had a major part in the Religious wars tfought in this century.

We havebeen in Turkey and Russia, both as cnquers, visitors and loosers. So we have borrowed alot of words and also food from around.

As late we have calmed down alot though..

And Vasquez!
Interesting stuff! Don´t stop now!!!

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WOLF WINS EVERY FIGHT BUT ONE, AND IN THAT ONE, HE DIES

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Yorick: Vaskez, I mentioned that all European languages stemmed from IndoEuropean with the understanding that Finno-Ugric languages are ASIAN in origin, and from memory, are related somewhat distantly to Turkic languages. The Finns and Magyars ARE considered related by linguists as both originated in central Asia. The Finns at one point in history had a huge territory stretching from modern Finland through to Central Asia, where the Magyars originated. In the Budapest museum there's a huge map dedicated to the "arrival" and settlement in "Greater Hungary". I'm aware that the Slavs never conquered the Magyars, however, the Slavs never conquered the Rus (Swedish Vangarians) either. The Slavs have had a habit of either absorbing or influenceing their conquerors. I was merely pointing out that Swedish influence in the Finnish case, aside from affecting Finnish physical appearance, may well have affected the language. Austro-Ottoman-Slavic influence may well have altered the Magyar strain. Though the Tatars were indeed of Mongol stock (as indeed were the Huns) history generally distinguishes the two. Tamerlane's Samarkand was vastly different to Khublai's Kingdom. No need to give me a history lesson Vaskez , I'm familiar with what you are referring to. I once taught a Magyar. Brock Tamasi was his name and a very good singer/songwriter he is at that. I still have some Forintz at home too. No-one will change them though. Maybe I should have kept that damn receipt from the Beureau-de-change.....

Yorick is right there. IndoEuropean is larger than you think, and there are Asian languages that spring from it, such as Sanskrit, Bengali, Persian, Hindi, Iranian. These few are schematised under the name Satem languages, while most other european languages (save for some eastern european ones) are called Centum languages.


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Melusine, Archbabe of the OHF and the LH

Your voice is ambrosia