Islam: The Religion of Peace

[Night Stalker]

Originally posted by Yorick: Mouse, a Christian killing in the name of Jesus is in direct contradiction to the teachings and more importantly, the living example of Jesus Christ and the Apostles. If a Pope declares a war, it is without any precedent in Jesus or the Apostles actions. To find any sort of justification for a war, a Christian must go to the old testament. A shady proposition, because Christians are living under the new testament, not the old. Like an amendment to a constitution, the New Testament overrides the old if there is a seeming contradiction between the two.

Another thing to point out, is that the reason God sent Jesus to Earth (acourding to the New Testament) is because His people had wandered astray from His teachings and were horribly misguided. Jesus came to Earth to teach Peace and save the souls of the Children of God.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by Mouse: P.S. Could someone direct me to the exact reference in the Koran where it states the only way to attain paradise is through martyrdom. I can't find it.

The Qu'ran, Hadith and Shar'iah don't state "martyrdom is the only assurance of paradise." The Qu'ran ONLY states martyrdom as an assurance of paradise. It doesn't give any other assurance. Everyone else - even Muhammad - is at the mercy of Allah. Other Islamic writings concur, though I found one that puts Martyrs in the highest grade of paradise above those who kept Ramadan etc. (Though it said the distance is as vast as that between heaven and earth).

Here are some references:

From Muhammads teachings:

"There is a gate in the Paradise called as the "Gate of Crusaders." When the crusaders walk towards the Paradise, the gate opens and the crusaders with their swords hanging enter into Paradise passing through a grand welcome by angels, while the other people remain being held up for accounting of their deeds." -Wasail al-Shi’a, vol. 11, p-5 "For every virtue, there is an another higher virtue except when a human being sacrifices his life for the sake of God-Almighty. And in that case there exists nothing superior than that." -Wasail al-Shi’a, vol. 11,p-l0. ■ 1. "When the first drop of blood comes out his body all his sins are pardoned. 2. After martyrdom his head is placed upon the laps of two heavenly maids, who clean off dirt from his face and say -greeting to you, and he too reciprocates their greetings. 3. They dress him in Heavenly clothes. 4. The store keeper of Paradise present him different kinds of perfumes and good smells, so that he may select whatever desires. 5. At the time of martyrdom his place in Paradise is shown to him. 6. After the martyrdom his soul is addressed -you are free to move in the Paradise wherever you desire. 7. A martyr is allowed to witness God's Beauty, which brings a special sort of comfort for every prophet and martyr." -Wasail al-Shi’a, vol., 11,p-9.

After that list of seven, what starving Palestinian pauper surrounded by misery wouldn't be keen to witness God's beaut and be dressed in heavenly clothes with perfumes?

From the Qu'ran:

Those who believe, and suffer exile and strive with might and main, in Allah's cause, with their goods and their persons, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah: they are the people who will achieve (salvation).-al-Tawbah 9:20 (Yusuf Ali's translation) "Lo! God hath bought .from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: They shall fight in the way of God and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in Torah, the Gospel and the Holy Quran. Who fulfilleth his covenant better than God's? Rejoice in your bargain that you have made, for that is the supreme triumph." -the Holy Quran (9:111) “Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay they live finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.” -the Holy Quran (3:169)

From the Sahih al-Bukhari:

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 46: Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The example of a Mujahid in Allah's Cause-- and Allah knows better who really strives in His Cause----is like a person who fasts and prays continuously. Allah guarantees that He will admit the Mujahid in His Cause into Paradise if he is killed, otherwise He will return him to his home safely with rewards and war booty." Book 020, Number 4681: The tradition has been narrated on the authority of 'Abdullah b. Qais. He heard it from his father who, while facing the enemy, reported that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Surely, the gates of Paradise are under the shadows of the swords. A man in a shabby condition got up and said; Abu Musa, did you hear the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say this? He said: Yes. (The narrator said): He returned to his friends and said: I greet you (a farewell greeting). Then he broke the sheath of his sword, threw it away, advanced with his (naked) sword towards the enemy and fought (them) with it until he was slain. Volume 4, Book 52, Number 45: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Somebody asked, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is the best among the people?" Allah's Apostle replied "A believer who strives his utmost in Allah's Cause with his life and property." They asked, "Who is next?" He replied, "A believer who stays in one of the mountain paths worshipping Allah and leaving the people secure from his mischief." Volume 4, Book 52, Number 42: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately. Volume 4, Book 52, Number 48: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Whoever believes in Allah and His Apostle, offer prayer perfectly and fasts the month of Ramadan, will rightfully be granted Paradise by Allah, no matter whether he fights in Allah's Cause or remains in the land where he is born." The people said, "O Allah's Apostle ! Shall we acquaint the people with the is good news?" He said, "Paradise has one-hundred grades which Allah has reserved for the Mujahidin who fight in His Cause, and the distance between each of two grades is like the distance between the Heaven and the Earth. So, when you ask Allah (for something), ask for Al-firdaus which is the best and highest part of Paradise."

[Draten-Master of Fire and Ice]

Fascinating, so the Muslims are taught that by killing infidels (or other enemies) in the name of Allah, keeping Ramadan, and especially getting themselves killed for Allah that they can work their way up to a better afterlife? Is that correct?

[Attalus]

An Arab once told me that they are taught that the earth is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, and that they believe that the whole eart will one day be in the House of Islam.

[Draten-Master of Fire and Ice]

Originally posted by Attalus: An Arab once told me that they are taught that the earth is divided into the House of Islam and the House of War, and that they believe that the whole eart will one day be in the House of Islam.

What does this mean: "House of Islam" and "House of War"?

Do I correctly conclude that "House of War" refers-to all of us infidels?

[Attalus]

Yep, or, more correctly, every country that is not ruled by Muslims. That is why they so bitterly resent the fact that Spain was reconquered, and that the Caliphate was destroyed in 1923.

[Draten-Master of Fire and Ice]

Originally posted by Attalus: Yep, or, more correctly, every country that is not ruled by Muslims. That is why they so bitterly resent the fact that Spain was reconquered, and that the Caliphate was destroyed in 1923.

Don't know what (or who?) a Caliphate is or was, but it seems evident that as a faith Muslims are bent on world domination...fools, didn't work for Rome, didn't work the Ottomans, didn't work for the Nazis, and it sure won't work for them either. I guess that is why most Muslims seem to have (sensibly) abandoned the idea.

I wonder where Yorick has got to?

[Attalus]

The Successor of the Prophet or Khalifa, Caliph in its most common English spelling, was the title taken by Abu Bakr, the father-in-law of Muhammad, when he succeeded him as leader of the Ummah or community of Islam in 632. The title became extinct when Khemal Ataturk abolishe the Ottoman Empire in 1923. It was a unique office, because in it was combined the leadership of both the Secular and religious arms of Islam, as if the Pope and the Roman Emperor were the same man. (and it would be a man. ) Todays Islamic radicals yearn for its reestablishment. Do a Google search on "Caliph". You'll get an eyeful, I guarantee.

[Draten-Master of Fire and Ice]

Cool, just wondered what that was.
Now it seems I recall somewhat of that from world history.
But didn't the Pope pretty much run things anyway?

[Leonis]

Originally posted by Donut: Leonis I feel that you have proved my point. Holy books can be used to prove any viewpoint by selective quoting and quoting out of context. I quoted the piece in response to the claim that all muslims seek world domination. The claim was justified by reference to the Koran. BTW - I've just heard a member of my staff ask a muslim woman for her 'christian name'. Oy vey! BTW2 The first quote wasn't mine either it was actually from a speech by a famous American politician. George Walker Bush.

Fair points. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

If your christian name is Christian, do you you just answer yes?