Reagan voted Greatest Living American!

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: From that I can only sadly conclude that you support the subversion of democracy and are not very concerned about genocide.

Another fine example of your "conspiracy laden ramblings".

He thinks you're wrong and because he doesn't agree with you he must support the subversion of democracy and can't be concerned with genocide?

Again, seems "marginalizing and dismissive"...

It also seems that it's Dramnek's way or the highway when it comes to international politics...

[ 12-16-2002, 08:16 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[Attalus]

Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: Could you please then explain how RR did not subvert democracy by participating in the Contra Affair? Could you also justify RR’s backing of a genocidal government? From that I can only sadly conclude that you support the subversion of democracy and are not very concerned about genocide.

If you think that the "Iran-Contra Affair" was subverting democracy, then, all I can say is that I disagree. Certain elements in the government ignored a wrong-headed and probably unconstitutional law, to do something they strongly believed that was in the country's best interests, and got caught. They were punished, also. How does that subvert democracy? As for the "genocidal government" part, all I can say is, we can't always pick our friends. How do you explain your opposition to GWB's intention to attack a true genocidal government, Saddam Hussein'S

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Eisenschwarz: Oh? I guess anything which criticises reagan must be false then. All, Are Well known historical facts. RR's Support for Death Squads in guatamala: Total bullshit this line. http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ro...Guatemala.html http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/47/160.html Iran Contra Affair, RR's Lying to congress and the American people: Prove he was lying, I do recall his answer being "I don't remember or I don't recall. Again your assertions are opinion and not fact. (might want to look up the symptoms of Alzheimers as well) http://www127.pair.com/critical/myth-07.htm http://gi.grolier.com/presidents/aae/side/irancon.html

Drammie, quit spammin the thread with the unmitigated poop that is spread in those links, all a bunch of self serving opinionated anti-reagan people...the first line of the first thread was enough to be offensive and indicate that it was an op-ed propaganda piece. When you post actual numbers and names, official statistics and fact come back and post them, I might notice. You so so make me want to say things to you that would be frowned upon on this board. so Im going to again imose an ignore every post dramnek makes mode....I had hoped that you had grown up when you changed names...ahh well.

Edit, remember that the original intent of this thread was about a Poll extolling the mans virtues. Obviously some people actually saw his accomplishments as positive. [/QUOTE]

[ 12-16-2002, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by MagiK: Obviously some people actually saw his accomplishments as positive.

And I am proudly, completely, and totally in that camp!

I don't think he was perfect, but if anyone can show me someone who is perfect...

[ 12-17-2002, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

[pritchke]

As a neutral observer there as been much posted on Reagan's flaws. But what did he do to deserve to be nominated greatest president ever.

A list of good deeds because so far the only list as been negative and backs why he shouldn't be nominated, and the only arguments against this list are that you do not believe the negative list. What did he do that was good?

[Ronn_Bman]

Originally posted by pritchke: As a neutral observer there as been much posted on Reagan's flaws. But what did he do to deserve to be nominated greatest president ever. A list of good deeds because so far the only list as been negative and backs why he shouldn't be nominated, and the only arguments against this list are that you do not believe the negative list. What did he do that was good?

On the first page, I posted a link to a Reagan site that lists lots of reasons he should be considered a great president.

Check it out here.

[ 12-17-2002, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Ronn_Bman ]

Originally posted by pritchke: As a neutral observer there as been much posted on Reagan's flaws. But what did he do to deserve to be nominated greatest president ever. A list of good deeds because so far the only list as been negative and backs why he shouldn't be nominated, and the only arguments against this list are that you do not believe the negative list. What did he do that was good?

If you would bother to actually read the first post in this thread, you will see, nothing is mentioned about him being the greatest president ever. You will see however he was voted as "Greatest Living American" and if you think that ending the cold war was not an important issue, then you may be too young and should read up on what the cold war was and maybe want to read up on the 80's a bit and not just puff pieces from liberal media outlets. Read some strategic analysis about the cold war, and about the chess like moves of the super powers and their allies. Reagan was da MAN in the 80's.

The lists you mention are narrow out of context propaganda when viewed as isolated facts do look ugly but when corrected for accuracy and viewed against a backdrop of the Cold War world, you will find that some times the lesser of two evils is a good thing even though still an evil.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Just to put a new spin on this thread.....

I feel that Ronald Reagan was easily the better President....but I would have to vote Jimmy Carter ahead of him as the "Greatest Living American". Carter's best and brightest accomplishment came after his tenure as President. He has literally become a "World Class" diplomat and has contributed to many humanitarian efforts since leaving the Oval Office. He has engaged in several diplomatic efforts on behalf of the U.S. and is far more respected now than when he was our leader.

Granted, Reagan was much older after his two terms (and was already beginning to suffer the first stages of Alzheimer's), so he really didn't have as much opportunity to pursue such matters after leaving office.

Still, Jimmy Carter has gone from being a forgettable President to a world-renowned diplomat. That speaks volumes of the mans character and abilities IMHO.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: No Dramnek, anything that criticizes Reagan does not have to be false. I never said the man was perfect, but I am entitled to my beliefs that he was a great president, just as you are entitled to think he is the anti-Christ if you’d like. You listed lots of links and you are entitled to believe those if you chose, but your linked site's magazine articles and book excerpts that offer an alternative view(one of your site's descriptions of their offerings, not mine) aren't something I found truthful or compelling. I’m not really interested in the books and video tapes they’re selling and even less interested in the reviews, excerpts and discussions. Certainly you are entitled to enjoy them, but by the same token, I don’t have to believe it.

Ahh, So you’re basically saying you’re not going to admit to them since the consequences of them being true would be detrimental for you.
Dude, That’s shameful, What If a scientist said
“Well, I don’t believe that light really does travel at this speed and I shan’t look at any evidence to prove that it does”
Where would we be if we refused to acknowledge any evidence for anything?

Can you say Cop out...?
Knew you could )

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: the pot calling the kettle black, eh? I think we can agree that I don’t have a very high regard for your opinion, and you don’t have a very high regard for mine, but the problem continues to be….

Go read the Iran contra report, It quite Cleary states that Ronald Reagan failed in his constitutional duty as president.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: That you think you are completely right, and anyone who believes differently is completely wrong. As if you are somehow an authority. In the process, you don’t mind telling others what they should think regarding the subject. You believe those things, but I don’t. Lot’s of people don’t believe them Dramnek. You aren’t speaking some great truth the world is waiting to hear. You don’t discuss issues; you preach your philosophy and chastise anyone who dares to disagree with you. Suggesting that I can think death squads and a president lying to the American people is ok or even support it if I'd like, but that I can’t believe these things didn’t happen isn’t “marginalizing and dismissing opposing views? ”. Am I suppose to believe everything you tell me? Are you the final authority? You can find lots of links to anti-government sites, and I can find lots of links to pro-Reagan sites, but it doesn’t prove anything because neither of us will ever know these things for an absolute fact because neither of us will ever know his thoughts or be privy to actual evidence. We both have access to media sources, I’ll believe mine and you’ll believe yours.

Lets look at some facts shall we? (Purely economic here this time)

http://www.korpios.org/resurgent/5Debt.htm

If you don't like those, You can always go
"WAH! I DON'T LIKE THEM THEY ARE NOT BLATENTLY PRO RAYGUN"

I will examine all evidence HTH.

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Dammit Jim, I'm an Ironworker, not a doctor!

No I don’t label anyone who disagrees with me in the manner above. You’re the only one who’s gotten that designation. You think my “ opinion of events has a sanitized and history denying gloss”, and yes, I think yours are completely anti-US, conspiracy laden ramblings. I’d say your “I’m right and everyone who believes differently is not only wrong, but stupid and immoral” does more to dismiss your ideas than anything I could say about them. So you’re not anti-US? Just "anti" US government, it’s officials, and it's actions, but only anti-US citizens who actually find some good in government and don’t believe what you’re preaching?

Again it seems you cannot lay of the "Anti American Brush".

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: Is this another example of the “marginalizing and dismissal of opposing views” you mentioned earlier? [/b]

If you were to go around saying
“Hitler was a bit bad when it came to people being killed, But He was good for German industry, so IMHO he’s a great man”
Would you still feel justified in saying that?

TOT.
TIA.
TTFN.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Ronn_Bman: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: Obviously some people actually saw his accomplishments as positive.

And I am proudly, completely, and totally in that camp!

I don't think he was perfect, but if anyone can show me someone who is perfect...[/QUOTE]I can do that for you, Ronn. I just happen to have a picture of Him right here.