On Cowardice

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by Yorick: You must have. Wahabism has commited grave acts against other Islamics as well as the United States. We are at war with terrorism perpetuated by Wahabi extremists, not Islam.

You missed something too, Yorick Apparently Liliara's post was directed at somebody else, which has now been deleted, not anything I said.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by kiwidoc: Yorick - you may be unaware of the fact that I ma a psychiatrist who has spent 20 years assessing people who have attempted suicide, working with children and spouses of those who have suicided, reading and taking part in research into suicide and deliberate self harm, and working with those who suffer emotional and physical pain. This is what I meant b my knowledge of suicide and those who attempt it. In all this time I have been repeatedly struck by the thought "there but for the grace of god go I" Suicide is never simple. Some people can survive unbelievable pain yes ... but we are all different and have different support systems around us. We all have different reasons to stay alive or not. People who kill themselves are not cowards - just very ill and/or very desperate. Odds are that at least 10 people who have read your post on this board have made a serious attempt to end their life. You may disagree with what they have done but please don't judge them.

Kiwi, I guessed that's what you did, and I stand by what I said. I've been hanging around churches for 25 years or so and seen plenty of related stuff myself. You cannot presume to judge anothers 'experience' of a situation so.

I take it that you did not read my deleted post?

If anyone did could they let me know? Just for my piece of mind...

Anyhow regarding offending people, no-one whom I am talking about could possibly read my post. A suicide attemptis not a completed act. These people are survivors - even unwitting survivors, and are brave individuals and have my respect, empathy and compassion.

There are a few who succeeded who I would love to raise up and kick their arses and show them the mess they left behind. The distraught loved ones whom they were oblivious to. The people who were plunged into depression and went suicidal themselves.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Originally posted by John D Harris: What makes it cowardly is that the attacker gives no warning. No massing of troops, gathering of forces in the open like MEN.

Sorry, John, we are just going have to agree to disagree here. The way the US wages war today is not some chivalrous medieveal ideal of personal bravery, risk, and honor.

Do our planes give advance warning that they are coming, or do they make every effort to hide their approach as much as they can? Hell, some of our planes were designed to be practically undetectable on approach. The reality of the situation does not fit your ideal of manly men forming up for honorable medieval combat.

[Yorick]

Originally posted by G'kar: Hmmm I see a little misconception about satanists. Cult behavior is not satanism, and its beliefs go way beyond the contempary authors that have been mentioned as "spokespeople". One of the creeds of real satanists is personal responsibility for individual actions. It has a sense of ethic, dignity, and has nothing to do with the christian concept of satan, or christianity at all, except that satanists are misconcieved by some, maybe most christians. Satanism is like Witchcraft in some regards. Small groups, simple creeds, ancient archtypes, and persecuted. Heck it has alot in common with any given religious path.

Really? I don't know many religious groups that mass rape young girls mate.



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I am the walrus!.... er, no hang on....

A fair dinkum laughing Hyena!

[250]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Do our planes give advance warning that they are coming, or do they make every effort to hide their approach as much as they can? Hell, some of our planes were designed to be practically undetectable on approach. The reality of the situation does not fit your ideal of manly men forming up for honorable medieval combat.

hahaha!

"Afhag ground fire troop, this is US fighter jet, my position is XXX, please hit me with anti air missle, I repeat, my position is XXX"

[Bahamut]

Oh God, never really thought whart our teacher said in class were for real... so there is indeed a religion that has rape as an intiation of some sort.

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Mithril Cavalier of ALSB
You almost had me? You never had me! You never had your car! It is not about winning by a mile or by an inch, its about winning.

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: The way the US wages war today is not some chivalrous medieveal ideal of personal bravery, risk, and honor.

Again, in YOUR opinion.

Do our planes give advance warning that they are coming, or do they make every effort to hide their approach as much as they can? Hell, some of our planes were designed to be practically undetectable on approach. The reality of the situation does not fit your ideal of manly men forming up for honorable medieval combat.

We gave them 28 days. We gave them MANY chances to hand over the Terrorists. They knew we were coming, they watch CNN too ya know. So we didn't sneak up on them, they knew that their days were numbered when they didn't hand over Bin.


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Ziroc™
Ironworks Webmaster
www.tgeweb.com/ironworks

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Ziroc: We gave them 28 days. We gave them MANY chances to hand over the Terrorists. They knew we were coming, they watch CNN too ya know. So we didn't sneak up on them, they knew that their days were numbered when they didn't hand over Bin.

Thank you Ziroc!!!

Indeed, they had warning to what was coming, Omar was probably in his Jeep though when the time for decisions came down!

"VROOOOOOOOM"

(sorry if I am wearing this out, but I just can't get the image out of my head!)


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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)

[This message has been edited by Liliara (edited 10-09-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

Er, if you read what I said about the planes coming again, it should be clear that I was talking about on each combat mission to each target.

As for us announcing we were coming in the most general terms from far away, well, hell, Bin Laden did as much years ago.

Ziroc, I would be very interested in hearing how you think waging war by planes and missles accords with medieval notions of chivalry and personal honor. I'm afraid those notions are out of date in modern warfare.

Anyway, this whole discussion is turning silly.

It seems that y'all are now saying that the terrorists are cowards because they won't fight war on our terms, by our methods, by our weapons and tactics, in short, in a way in which we would have every advantage and in which it would be downright stupid and suicidal for them to do so.

[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 10-09-2001).]

[Liliara]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: Er, if you read what I said about the planes coming again, it should be clear that I was talking about on each combat mission to each target. As for us announcing we were coming in the most general terms from far away, well, hell, Bin Laden did as much years ago.

Yes, in that you are correct! We should have assasinated him while Clinton was in office! But we all know what he was busy doing!



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Captain of Bouncers, Boogre Bar

LH Member

And you never did think that it ever would happen again, in America did you? And you never did think that we'd ever get together again, but we damn sure fooled ya. We're walkin' real proud and we're talkin' real loud again, in America. And you never did think that it ever would happen again.... (Charlie Daniels)