Doom III - Page 8

Hivetyrant · 09-08-2004, 07:59 AM

Hey, thats not a bad program Frudi, but I think I will stick with ATITool, and The Catalyst Control centre.

frudi_x · 09-08-2004, 09:06 AM

nothing wrong with atitool... i just recommended rage3d tweak because i didn't know if you have any experience with such programs and it seems a little more user friendly than atitool. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hivetyrant · 09-08-2004, 09:25 AM

Fair enough, I agree Atitool, isntexactly user friendly.

Oblivion437 · 09-08-2004, 05:58 PM

Not just harder, but Doom3 integrates shaders heavily.

The problem is it sets up to use transistors that, if you played HL2 or other games, you would never actually use. You could go through the card's whole life on the applications coming in '04-'05 (calendar, not fiscal) years, and never run anything on those process blocks. The result is that it's just unused potential, which overclocking devotes to other purposes, streamlining the processes for superior speed and IQ. Nominally.

In Doom3's case, it's set up to use those very same disused transistors, and when you throw on the overclock switches, everything goes to hell, as it can't call them or run on them properly. They're not devoted to running shader programs that they're set aside for, that Doom3 happens to be the only game to run them right now. Instead, they're mainlined, and consequently, they don't do what they're supposed to. As a result, certain shader apps get blocked, hence the artifacts.

More or less approximated from Hard OCP and other sources.

My suggestion: Don't OC a piece of hardware unless you're sure what it will run. The high-end DX9 (Pixel Shader 2.0 is actually a DX 8 effect, or OpenGL) programs are specifically tuned to the original trans layout.

Doom3 relies heavily on OpenGL programs which Nvidia has far better support for. So if you're playing anything on Quake, Quake 2 or Quake 3 tech (such as those games, HL, Soldier of Fortune 1&2, Medal of Honor: Allied Assault and Return to Castle Wolfenstein) you're going to better performance and IQ from Nvidia hardware.

However, Direct 3D (D3D for short) runs better on ATI's platforms, which have downright mediocre GL support at best. It stems from the software support they build.

Another problem is that GL programs are being written in cG (a modified C++ ((A high-level programming language very popular across the market)) set for use in programming visuals) along with Direct3D, with somewhat weak support for ATI extensions, programs and function calls.

The thing is, Nvidia made this language, but they built their own hardware, and aren't necessarily intimately familiar with all the shader extensions on ARB2 (the high-level programming path on current ATI hardware) and ARB (older path for pre-9XXX Radeon cards) paths. Some extensions weren't known at all, and so a formal extension in the toolset for hundreds of such functions are not written.

Later versions are said to extend support to the older paths (where the problems are, the new ones, which cG uses, do have full support from the standard cG toolkit) which have somewhat archaic properties.

Well, as soon as that mess gets sorted out, and I learn C++, I'll begin writing shader apps...

seclists · 09-09-2004, 01:25 AM

Just to get one thing straight: my ATI Radeon is not "overclocked". It is in the exact condition that it was when I received the computer from the store.

The acceleration was set at maximum at the store. I tried bringing it down a bit, and that noticeably reduced the artefact problem, so I guess you are on to something here.

Is it the shading that is causing all this mess, i.e. if I turn the "Realtime shadows" or whatever option off in the D3 menu, the artefacts should go away?

T.I.A.

Elif Godson · 10-06-2004, 10:28 AM

so anyone wanna get together on the multiplayer section ? So far in the single player I have only made it to the fuel tube replacement in Alpha section 4 Man those floating heads and babie cries are getting to meh!!

Thoran · 10-06-2004, 06:45 PM

SPOILER WARNING...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I think the coolest scene was the ghost of the woman who leads you around, you can hear her and see her footprints... damn that was FREAKY!

Elif Godson · 10-11-2004, 11:16 AM

ooh havent found her yet, I just replaced the feul cell, man that was nasty when the Teresa was crying help!!! POP

09-08-2004, 05:58 PM	#74
Oblivion437 Baaz Draconian Join Date: June 17, 2002 Location: NY Age: 38 Posts: 723	Not just harder, but Doom3 integrates shaders heavily. The problem is it sets up to use transistors that, if you played HL2 or other games, you would never actually use. You could go through the card's whole life on the applications coming in '04-'05 (calendar, not fiscal) years, and never run anything on those process blocks. The result is that it's just unused potential, which overclocking devotes to other purposes, streamlining the processes for superior speed and IQ. Nominally. In Doom3's case, it's set up to use those very same disused transistors, and when you throw on the overclock switches, everything goes to hell, as it can't call them or run on them properly. They're not devoted to running shader programs that they're set aside for, that Doom3 happens to be the only game to run them right now. Instead, they're mainlined, and consequently, they don't do what they're supposed to. As a result, certain shader apps get blocked, hence the artifacts. More or less approximated from Hard OCP and other sources. My suggestion: Don't OC a piece of hardware unless you're sure what it will run. The high-end DX9 (Pixel Shader 2.0 is actually a DX 8 effect, or OpenGL) programs are specifically tuned to the original trans layout. Doom3 relies heavily on OpenGL programs which Nvidia has far better support for. So if you're playing anything on Quake, Quake 2 or Quake 3 tech (such as those games, HL, Soldier of Fortune 1&2, Medal of Honor: Allied Assault and Return to Castle Wolfenstein) you're going to better performance and IQ from Nvidia hardware. However, Direct 3D (D3D for short) runs better on ATI's platforms, which have downright mediocre GL support at best. It stems from the software support they build. Another problem is that GL programs are being written in cG (a modified C++ ((A high-level programming language very popular across the market)) set for use in programming visuals) along with Direct3D, with somewhat weak support for ATI extensions, programs and function calls. The thing is, Nvidia made this language, but they built their own hardware, and aren't necessarily intimately familiar with all the shader extensions on ARB2 (the high-level programming path on current ATI hardware) and ARB (older path for pre-9XXX Radeon cards) paths. Some extensions weren't known at all, and so a formal extension in the toolset for hundreds of such functions are not written. Later versions are said to extend support to the older paths (where the problems are, the new ones, which cG uses, do have full support from the standard cG toolkit) which have somewhat archaic properties. Well, as soon as that mess gets sorted out, and I learn C++, I'll begin writing shader apps... __________________ [img]\"http://www.jtdistributing.com/pics/tshirts/experts%20copy.jpg\" alt=\" - \" />

10-06-2004, 10:28 AM	#76
Elif Godson Dracolich Join Date: August 28, 2001 Location: Hurricane Valley Age: 53 Posts: 3,089	so anyone wanna get together on the multiplayer section ? So far in the single player I have only made it to the fuel tube replacement in Alpha section 4 Man those floating heads and babie cries are getting to meh!! __________________ Children get Arthritis too! http://awtampa.kintera.org/jaaware

10-11-2004, 11:16 AM	#78
Elif Godson Dracolich Join Date: August 28, 2001 Location: Hurricane Valley Age: 53 Posts: 3,089	ooh havent found her yet, I just replaced the feul cell, man that was nasty when the Teresa was crying help!!! POP __________________ Children get Arthritis too! http://awtampa.kintera.org/jaaware

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09-08-2004, 07:59 AM	#71
Hivetyrant Jack Burton Join Date: August 24, 2002 Location: Aussie now in the US of A! Age: 38 Posts: 5,403	Hey, thats not a bad program Frudi, but I think I will stick with ATITool, and The Catalyst Control centre.

09-08-2004, 09:06 AM	#72
frudi_x Drow Warrior Join Date: June 29, 2001 Location: the pale blue dot... Age: 45 Posts: 294	nothing wrong with atitool... i just recommended rage3d tweak because i didn't know if you have any experience with such programs and it seems a little more user friendly than atitool. [img]smile.gif[/img]

09-08-2004, 09:25 AM	#73
Hivetyrant Jack Burton Join Date: August 24, 2002 Location: Aussie now in the US of A! Age: 38 Posts: 5,403	Fair enough, I agree Atitool, isntexactly user friendly.

09-09-2004, 01:25 AM	#75
seclists Dungeon Master Join Date: December 18, 2003 Location: NA Age: 55 Posts: 57	Just to get one thing straight: my ATI Radeon is not "overclocked". It is in the exact condition that it was when I received the computer from the store. The acceleration was set at maximum at the store. I tried bringing it down a bit, and that noticeably reduced the artefact problem, so I guess you are on to something here. Is it the shading that is causing all this mess, i.e. if I turn the "Realtime shadows" or whatever option off in the D3 menu, the artefacts should go away? T.I.A.

10-06-2004, 06:45 PM	#77
Thoran Galvatron Join Date: January 10, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Age: 57 Posts: 2,109	SPOILER WARNING... . . . . . . . . . . . I think the coolest scene was the ghost of the woman who leads you around, you can hear her and see her footprints... damn that was FREAKY!

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